September 30, 2004

Are "Melting Pots" doomed to implode in the long run?

Will America's inevitable economic decline create racial instability in the near future?

What is the future of the melting pot concept? Most evidence suggests a correlation between a nation’s instability and the number of different ethnic groupings in the nation. As one would expect, evidence also and in turn suggest a correlation between a nation’s civil stability and homogeneousness. This could also be coincidence; however, given the competitive nature of humans, especially under competitive political and economic construct, I believe that increased social unrest in the product of a fragmented society.

Evidence of this correlation can be seen from Eastern Europe, after the fall of the USSR, to Africa. One can see the effects of history in which an empirical power or powers forced different ethnic peoples all under one roof and used a hard hand to maintain order. In the case of Africa, it was the European powers who decided, at the Berlin Conference of 1884, to divide up Africa to Various European nations. Thus, the borders of African nations were imposed to represent the resource, strategic and logistic interest of Europeans. Hence, competing autonomous tribes were often group together (purposely often) into one nation. The resultant is that confrontation and competition between these peoples have manifested into Genocidal occurrences in Eastern Europe and Africa, in the extreme cases.

In light of this, what is the long term fate of the American pot that does not melt? White America or America, since its start, has always feared the black race that was brought over as slaves. The reason being is that one group of people knew what they have done wrong to another group of people and thus feared revolt or retribution. The nation originally had primarily two or three groups, the Natives, the Europeans and the Africans. The Europeans oppressed and repressed the Native and Africans to the degree of creating stability for the nation (the nation being whites), at the expense of Black and Natives rights and freedom. Today, civil rights laws have been won and new groups of immigrants are pouring into the nation making it even less homogenous and hence threatening to long term peace, based upon the correlation factors.

Heterogeneous population grouping, especially when there is tradition of animosity, have only been maintained via oppressive forces or an abundance of opportunity that prevents the need of one groups interest being a cost to another group undery hyper competition. In the US, as the oppressive racial laws waned, economic opportunities in relative abundance is what has kept the nation ethnic groups from being at each others throats. Thus, the only glue that holds our nation together is economic opportunities and maintaining a vibrant future economic outlook.

If economics is the glue, then the future harmony of our heterogeneous groupings is indeed at risk. The reason being is that structurally and competitively, the USA economic machine is waning. We exist in a global market place where other nations have gained the comparative advantage in the production of many goods and services. Americans like to think of ourselves as superior innovators and this is what gives us the ultimate comparative advantage. However, many Asian nations are surpassing the USA in the intellectual achievement of their youth and if innovation is born from intellect, the USA will soon lose this comparative advantage as well.

The USA has run a trade deficit for 20 years running. This means that foreign investors are financing our debts and future and if they retract and reinvest in other markets, our economic engine will sputter. Not only that, we enjoy the benefit of the dollar being the base reserve currency of many nations in the world and If that switches to the Eurodollar, that will result in the fall of the US economy as well. These are simply a few of the structural weaknesses of our nation’s economy, but there are plenty more. The economic zenith of the nation and its relative position in the world has reached its peak about 20 years ago, when we last had a trade surplus.

As our nations economy structurally weakens, the nations needs more cheap sources of labor, thus they have opened to doors to Mexican immigrants. On the upper end, the doors of the nation have been opened to Asian immigrants on HB1 Visas, for their technical skills due to the fact that America is not producing the intellectual capital to keep it a leader in innovation. Thus, our nation is becoming more diverse, but rivalry will ferment between the lower and upper end competition. Latinos will become competitors with Blacks because the elites will divide and conquer as they always have. Asians numbers, if they continue to increase, will become a competitive threat at the upper end for whites, who traditionally saw themselves as the intellectual supreme.

As white tax dollars come more under the control of so-called racial minorities and programs (the result of changing demographics) and policies are enacted to represent the majority interest, which will be minorities, whites will be compelled to unify under the banner of preserving white interest. This is what minorities do under white majority rule in an attempt to preserve their interest, except they lack the economic power of whites. Since whites will still have control over most of the economic power, if not political, it will cause a violent resentment and reaction from the other groups, when whites start allocote opportunities in greater preference to whites than before.


At 11:05 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Melting Pot? Doomed to Implode?

Not be nature necessarily. By American design... prehaps no doubt. But you would be fooled if you listened to the Happy Blacks like John McWhorter who unwittingly (perhaps) mimick Whites like George Will and others less "respectable" Whites.

"One hundred years from now, the marvelous inevitability of interracial mixture will have created a delirously miscegenated America where hundreds of millions of cafe au lait Tiger Woodses ad Mariah Careys will be quite secure in knowing that American is "who they are". - McWhorter ~ Against Reparations Essay from "SHOULD AMERICA PAY?" (Winbush, 2003)

Like I told MBM at the .org, that's Black Studies 101. BUFFERS!

Obviously, McWhorter's wishful thinking like the "tired of race" WHITES (" that I can't use it monopolitically/exclusively...") are hoping for relief from the pending Anxiety Attack when they will cease to be the RULERS and will at least be resigned to some degree (and a 1' drop is like a winter to summer change for the Supremacy filled, spoiled and privileged) to being part of the RULED.

We know that want have none of that.
So, to some degree there is White sabotage pending the unpredictable yet certain demographic changes. It would be foolish for people to think that the Elites who have remained Elites since Day One in this country don't have this stuff mapped out. Mapped out to hoard as much for themselves and convert by way of granting junior membership to those who would serve to camouflage what's happening and deny that White Supremacy is still in effect and, if it has it druthers, will only leave if at all on its own terms.

But, to zero in on the idiocy of the McWhorters of the world, Whites are, for one, the one's who are least likely to "mix", regardless as to anecdotal appearances . I've yet to see stats that bear out the crazy proclamation McWhorter makes. The "race mixing" rate by no means supports his claims of hundred millions in a mere hundred years.

How many White Elites... super Elites are "mixing"?

Please... This is the Bag Of Beans they sell dumb Negroes who already been tricked out.

Whites will, IMO, rather pull a South Africa or some serious Puppet (Home) Regimes - since economically they will still be ahead collectively above whomever - and rule via the Minorite Stooge.

Pluralistically they will still have the biggest bloc, and with the ready made, street corner stooges of every color they already have, it will take a while before those who choose to remain here in the descent will have to relinguish the reins.

They're not going to leave until there's almost undeniable complete collapse, IMO.

This "Melting Pot" will either cook their way or they will take it like the proverbial ball and go home. There could be White Flight directly to the Euro. Wouldn't be surprise if that was part of the plan.

(since we're (I'm) speculating... :) )

At 1:22 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I think that the kicker is not when minorities become the majority, but when minorities begin to wield that political power to their self interest, in this representative form of democracy. In California and Texas, minorities are already the majority, not in the state senate or governor’s office. Thus, you have taxation without proper representation in those states. That is partly due however, to the younger age breakdown of the minorities as compared to whites.

Also, a good source of resentment will be minorities funding the social security benefits of predominantly white baby boomers, even though they themselves will not receive any social security benefits when they retire. Thus, they are funding a system that will never benefit them, but mostly go to benefit retired and vacationing whites.

At 2:21 PM, Blogger Scott said...

It good that you see the problem with the social security system.

At 2:37 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...


You know me. I'm all about dramatizing and confronting this. In fact, TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION (Beyond The Slogan) is a pet-preach-point of mine. Read this...

{{{ }}}

I feel fundamentally something that's both fair and will exploit this is every 'group' ethnic (or even opinion) should strive for and demand direct, primary control over their taxes, from Top To Bottom - national gov't on down. In that sense, I'm a proponent of Consensus/Consociation [Democracy]. As I understand it, at least theoretically there are a number of nations in the world with ethnic populations pushing for this. IMO, this could be a worldwide political movement like the CRM was and how it was instrumental in encouraging mass protest...

So, as alluded to in another thread (Reparations), this form of internal pressure as America 'weakens' could represent something that is ripe to take advantage of. If not now, then soon. Further, as mentioned, that's the way the world of human rights are evolving anyway.

At 2:53 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...


I thought it was rather interesting that a CONservative actually angled for accepting Reparations on that grounds - that Blacks due to life-span have hardly reaped what they have put into the Social Security system...

At 3:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You wrote "What is the future of the melting pot concept? Most evidence suggests a correlation between a nation’s instability and the number of different ethnic groupings in the nation."
I disagree. The stability of the nation with different ethnic groupings is based on what economic type are in the melting pot. The Mexicans that are now pouring into the pot are not the ones a nation would select to improve the nation. They are generally in poor health, lack education, have no money and thus take more out of the system than they contribute. They strain our welfare system, bankrupt our hospital emergency rooms, fill our prisons, drive on our roads without insurance, strain our school systems and are the main reason test scores in our schools are at an all time low. Additionally, they work for lower wages and wreck the economy for better wages. If what we were getting from Mexico were the highly educated and wealthy, it would be a different story.


At 11:13 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

Comrade, I believe your post actually reinforces one of the points if not the essential point in Noah's post.

Noah wrote "Thus, the only glue that holds our nation together is economic opportunities and maintaining a vibrant future economic outlook."

In response to his post you wrote, that is was not so much the people but the “economic type” which is you practicing class warfare, and equal to what white folk say about poor Black folk they believe are a drain on the system. You have taken to using the term "our" in regards to the "welfare system" "hospital emergency rooms" "prisons" "roads" and so on. Thus you have chosen to identify as an American in the sense that white folk identify as an American and American in this instance equals a homogenous group looking to maintain its stability via keeping others out of the system so that economic opportunities are not lost and the economic outlook remains good.

While you identify with white folk belief that poor Mexicans coming to America is a drain on the system, white folk do not see Mexicans any different than they see most Black folk. Thus we are back to Noah's original premise in that the glue that holds a nation together is the economy and in an effort to save the nation economically you have picked up arguments articulated about Mexicans by white folk but these very arguments are similar to the arguments articulated by white folk about Black folk.

The point is, as you are fighting with white folk against Mexicans and their perceived drain on the system, white folk still see Black folk in the same light and if you join them in their fight against Mexicans you are given creditability to their arguments similar to those against Mexicans that are about us. Meaning that once they have successfully fought off Mexicans with your help, the same arguments that you gave creditability to by supporting them when they were said about Mexicans can now be used against Black folk and they will use your agreement with their argument against Mexicans as proof their arguments are true.

What I got from Noah’s post is that Black men and women should be looking out for our own interest even in times when the economy is good and the economic outlook is good because when these things are not so, white folk will resort back to their barbaric racist practices of old and because we were not unified when things were good it will be difficult for us to unify when things are bad. White unity has not diminished to the degree that Black unity has which can be seen in white unity against reparations and affirmative action. We now have Black folk that are against affirmative action and reparations, but when things get really bad white folk will resort back to their most barbaric form of racism to compliment their covert racism today and those who fought with them will find themselves at a lost as those Black men returning from fighting American wars in the past did when they returned to America only to be treated worse than the POW from white nations.

At 2:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't agree with your analysis. White people see Black people as competitors who can perform just as well or better than they can. The few that are what you call "a drain" do not match or come close to the number of whites who are a drain on the system. Your analysis would support letting additional drains attach to the system. There is no justification for that.


At 1:58 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I do not think it correct to say that whites see blacks as equal competitors. If that were true, then you would not see them constantly complaining of Affirmative Action and the less qualified blacks taking positions that whites were more qualified for. Your point is correct in the venue of sports, however, But in the intelligence venue, that is where white supremacy it attempting to hold its last stand.

I do not think that Hispanics are a drain on our system. If they were, believe me, they would not be allowed to get into this country as they do. If there entry could not be stopped, then they could be discouraged by not proving them jobs and things. The truth is that the USA economy has demand for their cheap labor that is hard to fill from the native born population. There cheap source of labor allows for cheaper priced goods, many agricultural products and other foods. They are far from being a strain on the system at this point in time. However, as our nations economic fortune wanes, they, and black Americans, will be considered by whites as a strain on the system.

At 11:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I disagree. I said ILLEGALS are a drain on our system, not Hispanics. You have misquoted me. Additionally, whites have always looked for excuses to exclude other races so that they can have an economic advantage. They have now found that Blacks are just as competitive and intellectually capable as they are but just refuse to admit it. That is why they complain about AA. They do not see it as a program to remove artificial barriers. They see it as Blacks getting an advantage over them. And Blacks are not the ones who benefited most from AA. It was/is white women who get the most from AA. AA removed barriers to those Blacks who were QUALIFIED to compete with whites on the same level. Whenever Blacks out perform whites intellectually, whites claim there is something wrong with the "procedures". Now with AA, they claim unqualified Blacks are taking their jobs. When Blacks cannot out perform them and cannot get jobs because of that, then whites say they are lazy or they should pull themselves up from their own bootstraps or some other malarkey. Illegals are a drain on our system and the benefits that you claim we get from their labor is nowhere close to what we have to pay for their medical expenses, welfare, crimes, insurance premiums and strain on our whole system. They are illegal because if they tried getting into the system legally like the other Mexicans, they would not make it. They know it and so do the companies who hire them. The majority of them could not pass a simple health screening. Many of them have criminal records and could not get into our system legally. And if their labor was so valuable and contributed so much to keeping prices down for us, the Mexican government would be making every effort to keep them for their own economic system. Our system uses and abuses them for profit. The companies who hire them don't pay their medicals, pay them wages so low that they cannot earn enough for decent housing and food. And the ones who wind up picking up the tab for this are the American tax payer, Black, white , whatever.


At 11:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Executive Summary
Analysis of the latest Census data indicates that Arizona’s illegal immigrant population is costing the state’s taxpayers about $1.3 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration. Even if the estimated tax contributions of illegal immigrant workers are subtracted, net outlays still amount to about $1.3 billion per year. The annual fiscal burden borne by Arizonans amounts to more than $700 per household headed by a native-born resident.

This analysis looks specifically at the costs of education, health care and incarceration because they represent the largest cost areas and because a 1994 study conducted by the Urban Institute, which also examined these same costs, provides a useful baseline for comparison ten years later. Other studies have been conducted in the interim, showing trends that support the conclusions of this report.

As this report will note, other significant costs associated with illegal immigration exist and should be taken into account by federal and state officials. But even without accounting for all of the multitude of areas in which costs are being incurred by Arizona taxpayers, the programs analyzed in this study indicate that the burden is substantial and that the costs are rapidly increasing.

The $1.3 billion in costs incurred by Arizona taxpayers is comprised of outlays in the following areas:

Education. Based on estimates of the illegal immigrant population in Arizona and documented costs of K-12 schooling, Arizonans spend approximately $820 million annually on education for illegal immigrant children and for their U.S.-born siblings.
Health Care. Uncom-pensated medical outlays for health care provided to the state’s illegal alien population is now estimated at about $400 million a year.
Incarceration. The cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in Arizona prisons and jails amounts to about $80 million a year (not including the monetary costs of the crimes that led to their incarceration).
The unauthorized immigrant population pays some state and local taxes that go toward offsetting these costs, but they do not come near to matching the expenses. The total of such payments might generously be estimated at $257 million per year.

The fiscal costs of illegal immigration do not end with these three major cost items. The total costs of illegal immigration to the state’s taxpayers would be considerably higher if other costs such as special English instruction, school nutrition programs, or welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal alien workers were added into the equation.




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