January 13, 2005

Dwelling On The Superficial: The “N” word vs. White America (guest commentary)

On a short road trip for work, I tuned my radio to the almost unavoidable conservative talk show. It’s either that or sports because that’s about all I can listen to on the radio where I live. It was the subject of the Mike Gallagher Show that drew my attention. Not so much for its content or the actual subject per se; it was the things that were not being said, the things that apparently did not occur to the host or the audience that got me to thinking.

The topic of this show had to do with the “N” word. Apparently, Mr. Gallagher had heard enough from his audience to make the declaration that he would no longer use the “N” word on his show. He apparently had a number of shows that dealt with how Black youth and Black entertainers - the hip hop generation - tend to use the “N” word with no guilt. No compunction. No respect for the hurt that it symbolizes.

Of course, Gallagher’s Black callers (the one’s I heard comment) all chimed in by saying that the “N” word should never be used for any reason under any pretense. It, in their opinion, should be promptly banished from (American) English. So, hearing this - perhaps via e-mail as well as from callers - Gallagher decided to revoke his journalistic license to use the “N” word even if only in academic terms because he was convinced by the responses from his Black listeners that the word was/is vile and hurtful on its face.

Now, first... Let me say this clearly. My point here in bringing this up is NOT to discuss the Ins and Outs of using or not using the “N” word. With that said, What I believe is a telling revelation about race in America is the broad cross-racial consensus about something as superficial as a word-name-term like the “N” word while there remains a huge gulf along racial lines on things that impact people the most.

At best, someone saying the “N” word is a personal insult. Yes, it’s one with a deep history but it really doesn’t go beyond one person say something demeaning to another person. It is in that respect that I call it superficial. It exists mainly on a personal level.

The correlating hypocrisy comes in when we see how little concern Whites primarily, and Blacks alike have for the greatest insult to Black Humanity: America’s continued structural and systematic hold on White Privilege and White Supremacy.

In his book, “White Racism”, Joe Feagin closes his analysis of America’s intrinsically entrenched White Racism with a powerful, self-evident point: “The base of the U.S. system must be replaced if systematic racism is to be removed, just as a sinking foundation of a dilapidated building must be replaced. A new [Constitutional] convention is required... to address restitution and [equal] rights...” and to ensure we have a true democracy that is representative of all the people.

Ironically, the sparkling consensus that appears to be present among Whites and Blacks on something as superficial as the use of the “N” word effectively dissipates when the subject of the clear and present insult of a White framed country, based on White framed document is discussed. Yes, I’d say that’s pretty ironic. Actually, it’s really cynically hypocritical that so many Conservatives, Black and especially White ones, would pretend to be so incensed by the casual non-reflective use of the “N” word by Black hip-hoppers and, yet, be so comparatively comfortable with, if not actively complicit with America’s system of White Supremacy, this is an egregious insult. I am simply asking, which is the bigger, more harmful insult: A term with a vile and distasteful history like the “N” word; or a system that effectively accords (the highest) privilege to White skin and still produces the same historical equation of Niggerization - i.e. the subjugation of Black freedom and aspirations by a White focused, White dominated power structure?

The irrefutable point is that the ultimate Power Relationships between Blacks and Whites remain unchanged. Unlike the broad and varied calls to categorically banish the “N” word, few have conceived or would ever begin to even suggest that there needs to be a complete and thorough rooting out the much more expansive and extensive, ever present reality of America’s system of White Supremacy. Most Whites either fully embrace it for what it is as it embodies what’s “good for them” or vicariously delude themselves into thinking that there is some redeeming value in it (along with fringe benefits that they would rather not forsake). Some Blacks just simply resign themselves to the idea that “That’s the way it is. It’s A White Man’s World” - and this is the logical extension of a lot of Black CONservative thinking as well as the resignation of others who buy into deferring to “the system”.

(Note: This is also the thinking of a lot of the “traditional Civil Rights leadership”. They share the same fundamental ideas in common with Whites, in general, and Black Conservatives to a certain extent. They believe there is some redeeming value in the system.) To prove my point one need only reflect on the obvious facts: QUOTE: According to Feagin, blacks comprise 12 percent of the U.S. population but less than one-third of 1 percent hold positions of power.

The idea that people can show more outrage over sometimes careless, sometimes inconsiderate and, yes, still sometimes mean-spirited remarks like using the “N” word yet seem to be essentially silent on the outrageous reality of White Supremacy in America - giving consent by default if not by design - is like attacking kids for dropping out of school while overlooking the piss poor school system that never cared whether they were there or not.

Amazingly, people - especially CONservatives - can call for the sweeping reform, if not the complete scrapping, of the public schools system but hardly few would ever broach the subject of scrapping the way American society is structured with its built-in mechanisms designed to perpetuate and maintain White Privilege and White Supremacy.

Many are willing to separate students who achieve - even those who do so in failing schools - from their assessment of the (poor) health of the public school system. Naturally, they would characterize those students achievement as one of “achieving In Spite Of” the poor school system. Ironically, many of those same people will fail to distinguish and some intentionally won’t view Black success and progress in the same light: That Black progress and success is achieved In Spite Of the deep, inherent flaws in America’s [WHITE] institutions.

But, when you have so many White people willing to agree with what words shouldn’t be used but adamantly uphold racists like the “founding fathers” as men to be revered with very little question as to what their flaws meant to the very core of America’s “democracy” itself... you don’t expect anything beyond the superficial. And, lip service, for one, has always been superficial.

Nmaginate

44 Comments:

At 11:33 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

"Amazingly, people - especially CONservatives - can call for the sweeping reform, if not the complete scrapping, of the public schools system but hardly few would ever broach the subject of scrapping the way American society is structured with its built-in mechanisms designed to perpetuate and maintain White Privilege and White Supremacy."

This qoute here sums it up pretty well. The continued ignoring of the fact that the very foundation of this nations sits in a cess pool of white supremacy reminds us everyday that regardless of what comes out of the mouth of those who say racism is evil, their lip service is of no use to us in many respects. America's structural racist system is the forest, but we are so blinded by the trees.

 
At 1:54 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

They need good about themselves morally. Thus, the banning of the “N” word is a superficial step that cost them nothing. The whole system of slavery and white supremacy was about redistribution of human energy and opportunity from blacks to the benefit of whites. It required and imposed a forced sacrifice by blacks to give up something, freedom and equality, in exchange for the creation of the condition of white supremacy. In light of this, real change in this society requires redistribution and more than just superficial gestures where whites do not have to make any REAL sacrifices.

 
At 7:48 AM, Blogger Constructive Feedback said...

It simply amazes me to no end why you three spend so much time no the Black Conservative when, in your own words, he holds no power over Black people and his numbers are few.

Again I say - One day the mass of people who are defined as "African-Americans" will one day find themselves off on their own - no Whites, no Black Conservatives as they have gone off to be among themselves.

The only force that will shape the ultimate outcome that the Black Progressives who preside over the masses who are now free from any antagonists will be those of the Black Progressive.

At this time the truth about the effectiveness or flaws within these polices will be shown in their full light.

It will be seen that the "windmills" a la Don Quixote that have been sought out for destruction while living among the antagonists don't translate into economic development, academic accomplishment so that their young people might use their mental gifts to raise the masses nor more justice as these people now have to determine if people who look like them have broken "THEIR LAWS" (and not just the laws that the White man has put upon us) and thus dispense justice accordingly.

Again I say - I don't judge you by who YOU attack as you claim that they are doing damage to Black people. I judge the character of your platform by looking at the people WHO ARE DAMANGING the character and integrity of the Black Community while you remain SILENT about their actions. In your silence you show the world that what you say is injurous to you when they do it in truth is only so in a CONDITIONAL sense and thus you don't deserve what you demand of them becuase you are a selective judge.

 
At 8:10 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

"It simply amazes me to no end why you three spend so much time no the Black Conservative when, in your own words, he holds no power over Black people and his numbers are few." - RENALDO
_______________________________________________________

Obviously you have some Reading Comprehension problems if you're commenting on my piece. It had NOTHING to do with Black Conservatives per se. It was far beyond idiotic, Right vs. Left speak.

What part of this didn't you understand??

[[[ Note: This is also the thinking of a lot of
the “traditional Civil Rights leadership”.
They share the same fundamental ideas in
common with Whites, in general, and Black
Conservatives... ]]]

((((*ahem*)))))))

 
At 8:30 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

What part of DWELLING ON THE SUPERFICIAL do you not understand, Renaldo?

That's an indictment to all to whom it applies.
The only "condition" is on the those who fit the description. A description that has NOTHING to do with Republican or Democrat political affiliations. My critique cuts both ways.

It really shows how selective a judge you are when the only thing you can see, when I explicitly stated otherwise, is my commentary being about Black/White CON's.

Please... come back when you have comments that are RELEVANT. Funny how you're silent on the obvious and blatant truth of what I presented and how you loudly boast your bastardized misrepresentation of it.

Don't let your personal Black CON bias mis-color everything you read. It's amazing to me how silent you are on all those things that are relevant.

When and if all B-Con's and Whites are removed...
Well, by definition that changes the whole dynamics...
Now, let's deal with the reality and factors of real influence that come into play. Black leadership is what it is because of those dynamics that you can't abstractly strip away and assume the same Black leadership would remain.

Thank you for you exercise in ignorance.
To the extent that established Black leadership is leading the masses astray then that has everything to do with every American socio-political dynamic that exist. As much as you would like to, you can't place Black leadership in a vaccuum.

And, I for one, have no interest in divorced-from-reality abstractions like that. I've yet to see anyone here praise Black liberal leadership. And there is no silence on the issues that you and B-Con's would associate as problematic and indicative of that Black liberal leadership.

Simply, all you want is for the heat to be off of the loud-talking new Hankerchief Heads. That's right! I've called BOTH Black liberal leadership and Black CON's Hankerchief Head, crumb snatchin' Sell-Outs (generally).

So much for the silence...

 
At 8:57 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 8:59 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

Nmaginate, pay that Negro no mind. He comes around here every so often with a new way of articulating the same ole garbage that has been intellectually destroyed once before and he lack the intellectually honesty to first admit that and then do what he claim to be doing here on the other side. You see, now his argument is he does not judge our platform by whom we attack but who we do not attack. However, he is only on Black Introspection talking this crap as his Negro-Con buddies spend their days and nights attacking Black men and women as Lazy, victims, and looking for a handout and never speaking to the institutional or structural racist system set up in America.

Renaldo in his Negro ways, come to this Blog and speak about Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy and all the other white folk he love to criticize as if we are in agreement with those men and women. We have stated over and over again that their is only a 10% difference in what white liberal and white conservatives want and that 10% rarely have anything to do with us, nor has he heard us mention these white folk on this Blog, it is only he who continue to fantasize about them. If there was one ounce of truth in Renaldo body, he would speak to Negro-Cons being such a small portion of the Black populace but having more than equal amount of time on television and in print media. Lastly, we are glad to have you hear Renaldo but to be truly effective and have us debate the issues as you see them you need to work on that Blog of yours and speak to the issues of concern to Black men and women in America. As you may have noticed, from browsing through the Blogsphere, there are tons of Negro-Cons with Blogs, but they spend the majority of their time on their hands and knees articulating the platitudes of the republican party. I hope you can do different.

 
At 10:05 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Yes, Faheem...

Renaldo and the like who really are way more partisan than we could ever hope to be suffer from the Acute Fallacy disease of believing:

That if you oppose one thing that somehow you are in support of the supposed opposite of it.

This is sloppy logic by any other name. Some people can't strip themselves from the false dichotomies they believe in so much - assuming that everyone else also sees things in the Bi-Polar ways they do.

And it's really funny how he has the nerve to talk about Who Has The Power and Who's Responsible For The (Most) Damage. I've emphatically said by way of my piece that Dwelling On The Superficial is the most damaging thing. That's not party-specific, so I guess that's why he couldn't understand.

Like you, I go as far as to say that there's a 10% difference between Black Liberal "leadership" and Black CONservatives. But I guess that makes me a fan of Jesse Jackson... lol

Yes, Renaldo's really concerned about Who Has The Power and Who's DAMANGING the character and integrity of the Black Community... But I, for one, am not oblige to divorce myself from common sense and sound logic to accomodate his adventures in False Causality.

Yes, Black Leadership exist in a vaccuum. A power vaccuum where White majority-rule political power is not a factor at all. If he wasn't so incredulous then we could actually talk about something. But all the assorted ways to justify his own contorted rationale causes him to distort facts, truth and reality in hopes that his lonely ideology can have some company with his misery.

RENALDO... Leave the scientific (fantasies) alone.
While your fantasy may be intriguing to you, your science is wayyyyyy the f*ck off because anyone with any knowledge about how scientific experiments work knows that once you remove certain variables you invariably change the whole nature of the being studied.

To assume, as you implicitly do, that Black Progressive/Liberal leadership would be effectively the same when the Great White & B-Con Rapture comes is fallacious and flawed on its face. And, beyond that, it's a pretty ignorant rendition of historical facts to try to associate economic development/improvement with Black Conservatives or whatever your little point was.

Historically, what has been the political-ideological affiliation of the Black business class?

It most certainly hasn't been predominantly something you can accurately associate with Black Conservative dogma. But even that can't be seen in a vaccuum.

 
At 10:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a white second-generation hispanic immigrant Londoner and I shall be linking to your article via my site because, it's a very interesting item and of relevance to my target audience: fellow members of the world's greatest melting pot city.
However, I have a number of observations I want to make.
I personally hate the 'n' word (the fact you don't spell it out, suggests you do too). It is a vile word and one that is taboo in Britain, despite the creeping influence of hip-hop. In fact I nearly got sacked once for threatening to deck an editor who used it at the high profile media organisation I work for. You're right: it is only a word. But that doesn't justify its use. All this stuff you hear about black people 'claiming the word back' sounds like bullshit to me. I'm not a conservative. But am I hypocrite too?
Your analysis also seems a tad black and white -- literally. I mean, aren't there large brown and yellow populations over there too?
Finally, having skimmed over some of the other comments, I detect a certain hatred that I'm perhaps not so familiar with over here. Talk of black people going it alone and all that -- is there an integration problem in the States, every race living apart, living seperate lives, etc? How can than help move things forward?
That said, the structural and systemic inequalities you describe seem incontestable to me.
Regards
William (www.zones2and3.com)

 
At 11:13 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Williams...

I explained in pretty good detail that my commentary wasn't about the "N" word. Just as I wasn't interested in discussing my views about the use of the word, I'm also not interested in hearing your views about it. That was clearly not the purpose of what I wrote.

So, if you want to go away with feeling like I labeled you a hypocrite then, that's on you. My commentary was to put that into perspective. Put into proper perspective, conservative or not, people who make a bigger deal out but don't carry out the same contempt for an even greater insult to Black Humanity as I've described, those are the hypocrites.

That's a conjunctive statement. And, as I lined out, comments Pro or Con on the "N" Word were IRRELEVANT to the purpose of what I tried to present.

As to what I said being Black & White, I simply say Browns & Yellows can speak for themselves. Who else is better to do that. I don't presume I can adequately speak for them, therefore I don't.

Moreover, what I presented can't be assumed to preclude things that have impact on Browns, Yellows or any color in the American Rainbow. The whole point of my essay, as my colleagues here are prone to say, is how people Can't See The Forest For The Trees. The fundamental way people conceptualize things especially as it relates to racial/ethnic conflict/relations (so to speak) aren't limited to any one set of race-relations.

Further, I'm under no obligation to speak of or to Browns or Yellows (as you call them). The title of this Blog is BLACK Perspectives & Introspection.

 
At 11:40 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Renaldo,

Let me ask you a question I posed to SCOTT a while ago.
You talked about academic excellence for one, right?

Tell me (and perhaps you can prove me wrong) are the people who found or are instrumental in say... Black oriented, high achieving schools like the one you spoke of in the metro-Atlanta area "liberal" or conservative?

(BTW, exaggerating and trying to rationalize your position by exaggerated innuendo won't work here.)

 
At 12:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nmaginate,
Thanks for your prompt response.
I take on board all your comments and consider my wrist duly slapped. I apologise for not having read your piece more carefully.
In fact, I find myself agreeing with most of your points and feel less of a hypocrite than usual.
However, I'm still curious as to why you say "the 'n' word" instead of "nigger" -- surely that means something.
As for the Brown, Yellow, Polkadot, whatever, point I was making --I was just trying to dig deeper to see what you actually thought of the rest of the society you live in. I just wanted to you to confirm or knock down the prevailing view that people of different races in the U.S. simply can't stand each other and choose to live apart (or would choose, if they could).
But, as you point out, this is a Black introspection thing, so maybe I'm intruding.
My apologies once again and good luck with the site,
William (for there is only one of me)

 
At 3:00 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Williams, I don't know where you get this "prevailing" view of yours but it's not accurate, IMO.

You can definitely consider my thoughts not to be an indication of how trans-racial interpersonal relations are. Nothing I say relates to that. Relating to people of all races/ethnicities on a personal level is just that - personal. On that, without question I judge everyone as an individual.

As far as living with others... at the very worst that's something I'm ambivalent about. I really have no problem with that. So, if I had the choice it would large depend on non-people issues so to speak as far as where I choose to live.

I can get along with anybody. But, like everything else, there's some rules that have to be followed... LOL!

 
At 9:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 5:37 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Whatever Hi-Rez wannabe...

You come from the ignorant premise that things written here are some type of request for "phony sympathy".

So, when you can make an argument or observation based on something truthful and relevant and not something fabricated then your comments can have some worth and standing.

Until then, keep being the coward that you are posting anonymously.

 
At 5:39 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

And you do a great job of practicing what you preach - embracing your brothers and sisters.

Any more phony pretenses??

How is your blog BTW?

 
At 5:53 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Oh, and please tell us something we don't know??

"If most Black athletes alone..."

WOW!!! Blow us away with the revelations.

Now, since you talk about solutions. How do you propose to facilitate that? What's your plan to get Black athletes or whoever to do just that?

That's the definition of a solution. An idea is not a solution. It's an idea and an idea alone until it takes form of something that is not only practical but something that can be facilitated by the appropriate mechanisms to make said idea an institutional reality. An everyday lasting reality and not just an "WE SHOULD DO" idea.

We should do a lot of things but that doesn't translate into a solution that says how we can do those things and what mechanisms we can use or create to accomplish them.

So, HOLLA BACK!!
Come back when you've progressed beyond the "WE SHOULD DO" level. I'll let you know if I'm impressed. Because as of now, I'm not. You haven't shown the ability to comprehend what a solution entails.

Anybody can float notions about What We Should Do.
And stuff about Black athletes and Black consumer power/wealth is COMMON KNOWLEDGE. Those common knowledge and commonly said things don't amount to a solution. A solution is something with actionable substance to it. Stuff that will be done or is being done via institution or mechanism X, Y, Z... Actionable Substance.

When you've got an idea rolling with that will get Black athletes to support and buy into your notion, then come back and talk "solutions". Otherwise, consider yourself still trying to get to that level. Don't get confused as you try to climb up.

 
At 6:06 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

Mr. and Mrs. Anonymous are not allowed to post here. If you have an opinion which clearly you do, then you should not have a problem saying who you are. I know and you know, who the coward really is, it is those who throw stones but want to remain anonymous while doing it. Show us your cowardice hand if you are so brave as your grandmother think you are.

 
At 9:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 12:43 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Mr. Anonymous, we are not interested in censoring anything written by the men and women that leave comments on this site. However, if you are a reader of this Blog like you said you were, you would have known from a post made on this Blog that Anonymous posting is not allowed and will be deleted, We said that long ago, check the archives you will find it in there. We have not disbaled anonymous posting because, we do not think every user should have to register with Blogger to leave a comment but the least they can do is leave a name with their comments so that we can always know who we are dealing with (many users do just that).

Lasty, Noah and I (Faheem) are the only ones as of now that can delete comments left on this blog. It was I (Faheem) that deleted your comments not because of what you said but because you did not leave a name. Speak your mind Black man but dont be a coward and hide behind anonymous posting. We welcome all opinions and hopefully you continue to give yours and stop hiding behind anonymous posting.

 
At 12:46 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

One more thing, create yourself a fake e-mail account if you wish or leave your real e-mail account and I will e-mail your comments to you and you can repost them with your name. I will not post them for you to avoid your words being confused as mine.

 
At 12:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is a re-posting of my last deleted message. As you can see, I have added my name at the bottom so you now know whom you are dealing with.

Roland C. Webb


Dear Friends,

You call your site "Black Perspective and Introspection." Which is exactly what I offered you... my introspective black perspective. However, if I had known that my post would ultimately be censored, I would never have done so in the first place. I posted anonymously because that was (and is) my right. In light of my being labeled a coward for doing so, it becomes obvious that this site is not truly dedicated to diverse opinion, or healthy debate (which was a major point in my initial post). We as a people have a difficult time when other blacks disagree with our views. In fact, this is less of a difficulty than a social, political and cultural pathology.

But if you want to discuss cowardice, perhaps address why you removed my post and then commented on it, disallowing your readers the opportunity to engage my words and formulate their own opinions. This is disgraceful behavior my friend!! Obviously my post struck a cord, and on that basis alone it should be heard. The only cowardice resides in your inability to accept diversity of opinion, as well as in your inability to formulate an articulate counter argument.

In my initial post I did offer solutions, which is almost unheard of on this forum. Black people can only help themselves – no one else will do it. Our very survival depends on it. I find it absolutely useless to whine about whitey when he has never changed. He’s the most consistent ballplayer – and he will continue to win until we learn to play the game. We choose to sell crack, we choose to forget school, we choose not to open businesses, we choose not to wear condoms, we choose to give up on our communities, we choose not to eat healthier, we choose obesity, we choose to neglect our children, we choose nihilism, we choose to censor those who disagree with us, and we choose hate over understanding and compassion.

For some reason, you think that the solution to our problems will reveal itself if you just keep saying “White Supremacist Society” or Negro-Con. I can guarantee you that if you say these words three times the Candy Man is “not” going to magically appear and Kill Whitey! This forum is more like an A.A. meeting for those with an addiction to self-loathing and hatred. It is certainly not a place for healthy, respectful, polemical discussion. But it could be my friends!

I have hope! I have love in my heart for you, and for all black people in this country that are fighting the good fight. So I urge you friends, let the people hear my words. But I will make a deal with you. If you put my original post back up, I will gladly offer my real name in all future posts.

That my friends, is an offer you can’t refuse!
Cheers!

Roland C. Webb

 
At 1:37 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Roland, it is good you came from behind the anonymous posting to show us who you really are and now we can debate the issues. There was no need to give your full name, Roland or anything else that you use as your online identity would have been sufficient.

You admit to being a reader of this Blog but did not respond or comment on all the post you apparently had an opinion on and you now want to have a broad discussion under Nmaginate’s post on the superficiality of the N word. Why is that? What is it about this post that made you finally speak up without addressing the topic being discussed? This is a tactic commonly used by our good friend Renaldo.

Most of your post above is irrelevant being that I explained to you why your post was deleted and offered to e-mail your original one back to you if you wanted to post it again.

I would be interesting in reading some of those Blogs you claim are like this one except on the right as if we are on the left and arguing a Liberal agenda. Interesting enough, you say of yourself that you are not Liberal or Conservative and that is cool being that it allows us to discuss Black issues without all the political BS that Liberals and Democrats get themselves involved in..

Beyond that Roland, the next post we make that you think does all that you have laid out in your comments, it would be best to comment then instead of waiting to discuss it in a topic that does not have anything to do it. One more thing you need to remember is that you are free to start your own Blog if you do not have one and articulate all that you say we fail to speak about. This will enable you to have the discussions you want and think is necessary as we are doing here. Writing your own op-eds on this Blog does not help your cause unless you are addressing this issues at hand something you did not and have not done.

Stick around Roland I am certain we will say something that will get your panties in a bunch.

 
At 3:28 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

RONALD, in your first anon post that got deleted, you mention something about the way "we" generalize on this blog. "WE" being Faheem, Noah (the founding contributors) and myself. Well, you've just laid out a litany of generalized factoids about with your WE CHOOSE TO's.

Further, as I posted above (which speaks to your idea of "just keep saying it" magical-wishful-thinking), simply saying WE SHOULD DO's are not tantamount to real solutions. Maybe it makes you feel important but Stating The Obvious and citing COMMON KNOWLEDGE things about what We Should Do or Could Do (Black Athletes, etc.) doesn't solve anything.

Again, I invite you to speak on what will facilitate those things you propose (as if they are something new or uncommon knowledge... which they are not) and bring them into fruition. Vague Proposals are not Solutions.

Just as saying White Supremacy doesn't solve anything, neither does pontificating over vague, incomplete and abstract proposals.

In terms of solutions, my direct response to the Bill Cosby fallout was that since Bill was so concerned about "Lower Economic" people's lack of education and supposed lack of desire for it, that he do what is being done with the Voucher Movement and start a foundation, using his celebrity to either build/found Academic Excellence Academy's in the inner-city (or wherever needed) or financially support Charter Schools, for instance, (or Black/African-centered ones).

That's a very simple, doable solution with established prototypes. He could just as easily use his celebrity with all the cheers he got, get Black Athletes and other Black celebs (and White ones) to contribute to his cause of raising one school-at-a-time, city-by-city, etc.

The response I got from someone who speaks remarkable like you (who wanted to defend Cosby) was "who determines what's enough for him to give"... (as if to say Cosby's recent Just Talking campaign and other things he does UNRELATED to his axe-to-grind were "enough".)

So, I'm completely ready to talk about solutions. But, I am a man of No Pretense. I don't get high off of pontificating, stating the obvious and citing COMMON KNOWLEDGE as if it's some type of revelation.

Solutions require assessible vechicles by which they can become something people readily buy into and see as worthwhile investment. Also, solutions are contingent on someone or some group taking the lead - which is what Faheem invited you to since you don't particularly care for the content of this Blog. Someone has to do more than create a mental spark. Someone has to start by taking the risk involved in pioneering a solution.

So, Talk, even when it comes to supposed solutions Is Cheap. Yet and still, saying WE SHOULD DO's is just as cheap as anything else said on these and other blogs/forums. There are libraries full of WE SHOULD DO's. The only problem is How Do We Get People Motivated To Do It? How Do We Make It Easier For People To See In Their Interest To Do It?

How Do We Make The Solution A Matter Of Convention and not one that requires inordinate sacrifice without the supportive, organizing structures that make that sacrifice - more than likely on an individual level - pay off into collective gain.

When you're ready to talk beyond COMMON KNOWLEDGE "We Should Do's and We Don't Do's" then holla!!

Otherwise, I'll see that as nothing but the pretentious Ego Driven BS that it is. We Should Do's really don't raise to the level of being functional solutions. And, given that, We Don't Do's are as passe as "Blame It On Whitey's" (your cheap and ridiculous reductionism notwithstanding).

 
At 6:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NmagiNATE Spoken like a true gentleman… Point taken!

However, I think you missed my point just a little bit my friend. The tragedy implicit in the “COMMON KNOWLEDGE” suggestions (to use your words) that I offered is that they are just that… COMMON. But somehow they seem like impossibilities – when they could be realities. If only we could somehow rise above greed, jealousy and indifference. My real point, however, was that we black folks spend far too much time diagnosing the problem, and feeding the fire un-constructively with hateful rhetoric. Frankly, I’m just tired of it. I see and experience the crudity of white racism every day, but what I’m most disturbed by are the self-defeating attitudes and behaviors of my people. We love nothing more than to feel superior over other blacks. If we accumulate resources, we hoard them, and will rarely lend a helping hand to those in need. And as this site often illustrates, we love to castigate blacks we don’t agree with. It’s just disgusting!!

This site offers no hope, no compassion and very little tolerance. I personally have no problem with black conservatives. In fact, I respect many of them for their courage to step out of line with accepted black mantras. Most of them I don’t agree with, but then again, I don’t have too. The left has failed miserably, and liberalism has become so formless, so amorphous, that no one buys it anymore. Maybe the black conservatives will accomplish something good in the future… who knows? I’m deeply offended by the “Negro-Con,” “Coon” remarks I see in this forum, because it merely replicates what hateful whites say about blacks in general. You just can’t paint them all with that brush. Most of them are honest, hard working, accomplished black folks circumnavigating the wilderness of hatred that surrounds them everyday. Yes, some of them are sell-outs and self-hating, but that just makes them human. You don’t have to be a black conservative to be a self-hating sell-out.

Black liberals & politicians, preachers, hawkish Afrocentrists, and racist pseudo-political demagogues have been exploiting the black community for hundreds of years. Black communities all over the nation are plagued with these hucksters who pretend to fight for us while they get rich off black misery. So let’s stop thinly veiling our hatred and contempt and calling it black consciousness, self-love and race pride. We have to kill the knee-jerk reaction we have to difference, and start listening a little closer. We must stop hurling insults and throwing around pseudo-intellectual, rabble-rousing rhetoric like “White Supremacy” borrowed from our worn-out copies of Malcolm X’s autobiography.

Faheen, I promise to stay on topic from now on, but I don’t think anything I’ve said has been irrelevant to this forum’s stated goals. However, you should have told me – before removing my post – that one must leave a name. That would have been the gentlemanly thing to do. To make amends, I think you should re-post my initial comments.

Cheers,
Roland C. Webb

 
At 7:09 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Rolando,

You can chill with your pretenses...
You grant deference to Black CONservatives talking about how hardworking and honest they are... While talking about Black Liberal, Afrocentrists, etc. in the same generalized fashion you pretend to be admonishing against. Obviously, the vast majority of those people fit the honorable description you felt so necessary to assign to Black CONservatives.

And you can also chill with all your PERSONALIZED disdain. This Blog is not Rolando's. It has NO obligation to reflect what you're tired of or not tired of. That's some self sh*t, Rolando. And the "worn out copies of Malcolm X's Autobiography" comment... PLEASE!!!

Get a grip, Rolando.

And, what I've properly called COMMON KNOWLEDGE, elementary, first stage proposals are very COMMON among those with beginners knowledge. And, as I said, talking about WE SHOULD DO's on the level you talked about (e.g. Black Athletes...) is common knowledge and passe'. It's like the In Living Color skit, "But what can that knowledge do for me?"

Consider your audience...
Given that you didn't do that and assumed those things (which are no major revelation to anyone who's taken anytime to reflect) were not known to us either suggests that you think you have some knowledge we don't without knowing or rather asking if we do or don't, hence making you ARROGANT... or you have some other ARROGANT pretense for stating without regard to what we know.

Hmm... those things, those COMMON KNOWLEDGE things kinda go right along with those worn out copies of Malcolm X. Funny how you can presume we're speaking script from that but not the simple stuff you mention and called "solution(s)".

Kill the Ego and the pretense.
I suggest you take Faheem's suggestion and create your own blog. I'll visit in hopes that you do talk about solutions and not rehash pseudo-common-knowledge "solutions" and actually speak to Actionable Substance.

On that note, I'd still like to see one of Tony Brown's proposals undertaken. The Hotel-conference option.

But, that aside, I suggest that you make sure your message of love, understanding and compassion extends itself equally with no respector of perspectives. I do hope you know that in your attempt to admonish us to not castigate people whom we don't agree with that you turned right around and castigated people who you apparently disagree with on some level (again, paint them with a broad brush).

 
At 8:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NmagiNATE my dear friend, don’t hate me because I’m beautiful!

No disrespect, but I don’t really understand what you’re saying half the time. What does manage to slip through all your poor grammar, misspellings and incoherent ramblings is that you profoundly disagree with me. OK, that’s fine… I can live with that.

Stay gold Pony Boy!!

Cheers,
Roland

 
At 8:48 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Get a grip...

I spell very well... (typing is another matter).
And you can't fade my grammar.

Show & Prove!!! Or Beam Me Up!

I profoundly want you to step it up.
And, as I just said, SHOW & PROVE!!

You claim you're all about talking about solutions.
_________________
_________________
_________________

Air & Opportunity. Step inside the arena.
Don't TALK ABOUT IT.... BE ABOUT.

"Incoherently", yet ever daringly, CHALLENGING YOU!!

(*waiting*).......
..................
..................
..................

 
At 8:51 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

And, Rolando, My Dear Friend...

The notion that you don't understand me speaks volumes to your already alluded to Beginners Level intelligence.

It's an Open Challenge...

 
At 10:21 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Roland, I welcome you criticism if its goal or intent is constructive. Let me first start by saying that this is a “Hate” blog, as you have suggested. However, the object of hate is not what you may interpret it to be. The reason that this is a blog of hate is born from the fact that we hate the conditions inflicted upon the black masses that have resulted in the current state of poverty for the black masses of the world, relative to the inflicting mass. I do not hate any race, religion or politically aligned group of people. Rather, what I hate is the conditions produced by certain groupings of humans.

When a person takes an honest look at history they will find that the traits of righteousness and goodness have never built an empire of wealth and status. Indeed, as the old saying goes; “Nice guys finish last”. In other words, righteousness and goodness creates a competitive disadvantage in a world filled with so much evil. Thus, knowing this, one faces a quagmire when striving to be both righteous and successful when being righteous is a competitive disadvantage on the earth.


Thus, the question for black people is do we follow the path leaning towards righteousness and risk being left behind economically or do we lean towards unrighteousness to be on par with the competition? Was/is our main source of discontent born from being the disproportionate victims of an unrighteous system or simply the unrighteous system itself? If an unrighteous system opens its doors to allow blacks to become benefactors of an unrighteous system…should we go running through the door? There were some blacks in the South who accept the economic system of slavery to the degree that they became slave owners and benefactors of an unjust system. Once the system allowed them to profit, even though they themselves or their ancestors were ex slaves, they found success by joining the system instead of trying to beat it.

In light of this, simply talking about what works, in the frame work of the system, may be to the economic interest of black individuals, but the trade off is that it keeps other peoples down in the process. One may not be able to see who the system is exploiting because it is done is stealth and usually outside the borders of developed nations. However, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is no accident, not the product of inferiority that accounts for the wealth and health differences in this world between whites and non whites, blacks in particular. It is the adaptation of certain ways of thinking and mindsets that lead men to rationalize the usurping of others sovereignty, resources, labor and wealth, transferring to the benefit of another group of people from the elites.

 
At 12:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Noah,

I must begin by saying that I appreciate your thoughtful commentary. You tapped into some very important points that I have strong feelings about. I don’t have much time to write, but I will say a few words.

You say your site is a Hate site. This is problematic for me because while I too am fed up with the conditions and root causes of black oppression in America, I will not (and cannot) advocate hatred of any kind. Hate is not productive, or constructive it’s irrational – which is a quality that this forum descends into far too often. I always understood what it was that you hated, but you have to rise above those feelings because they’re primitive and base. The whole “Negro-Con” (to use your terminology) movement is directly related to the growing prosperity in black America. It’s not a prosperity that is reaching the black masses, but it is rapidly growing anyway.

As you well know, most rich people choose conservatism because its policies protect their interests – this is true for minorities as well. Institutional white supremacy is dying, along with race in general. Racism does exist, but it’s primarily just the detritus of formerly legalized oppressions. We too often confuse the every day bigotries we experience from intolerant whites with hardcore institutionalized racism. My point is that blacks can overcome these hurdles today if we can find a way to change our attitudes and behaviors. America is an a-historical society, it’s a forward thinking culture with historical amnesia. All that matters today is the market; the global marketplace erodes differences. If you can compete in the techno-culture of multinational capitalism, then you will never be oppressed. If we think citing historical oppressions is going to get us anywhere, forget it – it’s a dead end.

Slavery was about money as well. Don’t even get me started on the fortunes that were built by African capitalists as a result of the transatlantic slave trade. Many blacks all over the globe benefited from slavery and colonialism – and those fortunes are still in existence today. And as you stated, many blacks owned slaves as well. That’s why we must kill the “white supremacy” rhetoric, because the man with the money is always the oppressor. And in today’s global economy that oppressor could be of any race or ethnicity.

I would say that the two most important goals for us to achieve are to accumulate wealth and to educate ourselves! The rest just doesn’t matter. Wealth buys politicians and political outcomes. Nothing is stopping us from accumulating wealth but ourselves. But in the words of Chris Rock, to accumulate wealth is to also capitalize on the pain of others. To rise above oppression, is to become an oppressor.

Cheers,

Roland

 
At 12:56 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Have you ever heard the saying that there is a thin line between love and hate? Hate is the consequence of love. If you love someone or something deeply, then hate comes about as a consequence when the object of your love is threatened or suffers. For example, you would hate to see a love one suffer. Anger is one of the stages of grief. It is simply part of human nature and part and parcel to humanity. It survived the natural selection process, thus, it must be an emotion that has helped humans survive. So please do not try teaching me the value and worth of hate. Besides, it is not as if I dwell on the emotion. I dwell on logic and reasoning and my emotions simply guide what I do with the logical processing.

I do not think that it is true that racism is dying. I think that racism was simply a means and rationalization for redistribution of resources, humans and nature, to the benefit of one race of people and away from others. One can say that since the mission has been accomplished and the world’s wealth and productive resources are disproportionately in the hands of whites, that there is less need for it. The test of true character can only be measured under stress and there is not much stress when you are the wealthiest race on the planet…by far. However, if and when this starts to change and the stress returns so to will white racism. There are many things manifesting currently in the world that will make whites feel threatened again, giving rise to the rationalization for racism.

Your angle is that you want to say that class has overtaken race. I do not believe this. Income does not create class. There are people who win the lottery and become rich, yet are looked at and treated differently than “old money”. Simply having money does not buy you acceptance into a class. Black people, regardless of their income, are generally seen as lower class by middle and upper-class whites, until you prove otherwise, which you always do not have the time to do. Blacks inherited our class as the reaction to our oppression. The oppression of us put us in the lower class. So for blacks, class cannot be separated from race.

What I see happening is that some blacks that have achieved income and wealth are starting to separate themselves from the poor black folks, based upon class defined by “Values and behavior”. They then join the ranks of whites who have generally always held the belief that blacks were inferior in regards to values and behavior. Thus, now there is commonality between well to do black folks and the traditional beliefs of a white racist society in regards to the black masses.

Wealth does not grow on trees and is not infinite. The system is set up like a monopoly game. If you try to suddenly walk in on a monopoly game that has been going on for hours, you will find that most of the wealth is taken and that your entry to the game simply creates more income and wealth for the current wealthy. Sure the monopoly board is static while the real economy is dynamic. However, success is a competition and those with advantage in the competition will have first grabs at all new opportunities that come into the game…if they have real value.

 
At 1:49 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Roland simply does not understand and give too much credit to the idea of hate. Saying that Hate (as expressed on this Blog) is not productive and not constructive and is simply irrational demonstrates that Roland has no idea as to what is rational and what is not. For a thing to be irrational means it must lack reasoning or logic and being that you (Roland) understand the logic and the reason behind the hate (as you call it) expressed on this Blog means that it does not meet the criteria of irrational emotional driven actions as commonly associated with hate. Black intellectualism is always labeled hateful, full of hatred and divisive. We see such labels given to the works and ideas of Michael Eric Dyson, Cornell West, Kawanza Kunjufu, Leonard Jefferies, Tony Martin, Dr. Naim Akbar even our Brother Randal Robinson is labeled a hateful racist. All of these men have stated and written about many things written about on this Blog to a degree and definitely in kind.

Roland must think of himself as one of those super duper Black elites, the kind that think of themselves as being one who can diagnose Black Consciences and break it down into various groups. They pride themselves on actually being in agreement with the Africentrist, Pan Africanist and Race Pride men and women while simultaneously criticizing us using the same language the opposition does. Roland has stated boldly that he think the Negro-Con is a sellout and capitulates to the whims of white folk but still believes our criticism of them is too harsh. In essence he agree with what we are saying but don’t like the way it is being said and uses juvenile logic when he thinks if we have not said something than we must be for that thing. Roland clearly has an opinion similar to ours that he want to get across but he want to do it on this Blog by way of having the discussions he wants. The Blogsphere is big Roland, and being that you agree with the overall points expressed on this Blog and just not the manner in which they are expressed means that you think there is a void and I think you should do as we have done when we seen there was a void FILL IT!!

 
At 2:16 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Here again, with Roland, we have an example of
Voicing Sentiments Without Conviction.

That is, saying things, listing certain pet-peves and gripes about certain things he doesn't like and then forming his ideas off of that versus speaking in a manner that's based off a logical examination of things.

Perhaps it's because he can't grasp certain concepts - White Supremacy. Yeah... That went right over his head.

White Supremacy, Roland, as Noah tried to explain to you (tried because you just don't get it) was not merely about who owned slaves. The White Supremacy was clearly in a system that made Black racialized Slavery the institution. The system of economic currency and wealth-building. Regardless of the owner, the established norm and the overriding benefit of it all was to whom? Certainly not just the mere individual Black slave-owner. The one constant there was Black enslavement. And it certainly was not by Black popular demand or design that free Blacks would own unfree ones.

That's the systematic dictates of White Supremacy.
That then, in order, for someone to advance economically they had to be invested in the Black Slavery economy. Mere participation in that does not make a Black slave-owner equal to a White one. Blacks certainly couldn't vote against it.

But then again, this minute percentage is the greatest reason to stop talking about White Supremacy as if one example of Blacks-owning-Blacks invalidates it. Roland, that's just a weak argument. Black slave-owner were not even statistically relevant(significant). But, when you're looking for an excuse, anything little thing will do I suppose.

 
At 3:08 PM, Blogger Conrad said...

I’m not trying to educate you in regard to hate. I’m a die-hard humanist, and you will never hear me spewing out hatred. In my mind, hatred is hatred, irregardless of how one wants to justify it.

Again, Noah, you’re confusing petty white bigotries with hardcore institutionalized racism. If you are a black billionaire, who cares if your ignorant rich white neighbors think you’re low class. Don’t place such a high premium on how you are perceived by whites. I’m sure you think that you don’t, but implicit in your most heartfelt remarks are these kinds of attitudes. I didn’t say anything about class, class is not important either – it’s just a diversion, a distraction. Slavery was never really about keeping blacks down, as much as it was about accumulating wealth. Remember, sub-Saharan Africa, Spain, Italy, Southeast Asia and the Middle East all benefited economically from slavery – so it’s much more complicated than these simplistic black/white binaries getting tossed around all the time.

How can you say that rich blacks take on the values of whites? And what “are” the values of whites? Are you speaking about individuals you know, or are you generalizing? Besides, why do you feel the need to police what blacks do? Would they be better off if they were Afrocentric, ex-crack head single mothers at a spoken-word festival? You would probable love them if they were unemployed, broke, dashiki and dreadlock wearing losers toting around a tattered copy of Carter G. Woodson’s “The Mis-education of the Negro.” Our prisons and ghettos are filled to the brim with “conscious” black folks with no prospects. They can break down the intricacies of our supposed “white supremacist capitalist patriarchy” but they just can’t seem to do much else.

Money and education does separate you from those that do not possess such privileges, but that cannot be helped. But this also taps into a major problem in black culture that I’m sure you are aware of. African-Americans post-Civil Rights don’t value education, and as a result, educated blacks are often ridiculed and castigated for “acting white.” The same goes for wealthy blacks. This is a disease in the black community. There is no one more hated in our communities than an Ivy League educated, wealthy black, living in the suburbs. And don’t let them be in an interracial relationship! At the root of these sentiments are jealousy and a desire for control. If you value our freedom and individuality then you must accept blacks that choose their own path – including those whom you say are intentionally distancing themselves. The problem with always blaming white racism is that you inherently label all whites racist. No one values individuality more than whites do. You think blacks owe something to each other because they share the same skin pigmentation and history. You think that blacks should behave in certain ways or have certain attitudes. These are mental shackles.

Frankly, I don’t care what black people do as long as they pull themselves up out of their enduring losing streak. I’m tired of seeing them at the bottom of every list, and at the top of every statistic. America is not a “racist white society;” it’s a society that worships money and wealth. Racism is a byproduct of this mentality. If you’re poor, you’re hated – you are a looser, a leech and a festering boil on the pristine back of American society. All I want to see are more and more educated and successful blacks. I don’t care who they marry, what they’re politics are, or how they feel about they’re blackness. As long as they’re honest, hardworking productive citizens of this country – I accept them. And with hope they will inspire other blacks to do the same.

Cheers,
Roland

 
At 3:50 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Well, Roland, you just said enough to ruin your own credibility with your obtuse aversion to the word "hate" and whatever you arbitrarily designate as "hate".

"hatred is hatred" you say and that shows an absolute flaw in your logic by resorting to such a ridiculous, unthinking absolute.

 
At 3:59 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Roland, I will say this and make you a proposal (and a suggestion to Faheem).

You write up a piece outlining what you feel needs to be discussed in terms of SOLUTIONS. Solutions that go beyond the dime-a-dozen WE SHOULD DO's (citing the common knowledge WE DON'T DO's). Write it up and e-mail Faheem just like I did in order for my commentary to be published here on this blog.

All this "I'm tired this", "I'm disgusted that"... says nothing about solutions and it actually implicates things that you "hate". That notwithstanding, you layout something worthy of discussing covering curative things you deem to be of utmost importance and we'll discuss that.

No more of this pontificating... Put it down, break it down, lay it all right down here.

 
At 4:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nmaginate, can you hear the deafening silence? It's glorious!!!!!

-Roland

 
At 4:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nmaginate, can you hear the deafening silence? It's glorious!!!!!

-Roland

 
At 4:27 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

So glorious that you have proven that you're all talk.
So glorious that you won't dare show what was already seen to be your false, phony and fake pretense to be true.

Great SCOTT!! It's glorious!

(Don't worry... I'm used to professers getting silent when I challenge them. All you've done was fulfill the immediate expectations, gloriously.)

 
At 5:34 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Correction:
You're so glorious that all you've shown is what was already see to be - your false, phony and fake pretense(s).

Seeing none... (no relevant comment to the topic from you)... it is so moved. Roland can't back up what he says. Practice what he preaches, say something relevant, deviate from his script, logically debate, demonstrate or substantiate, etc., etc., etc.

 
At 7:30 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I know that you are not trying to educate me about hate because you are a preacher and not a teacher. You want to use the term for your self serving purpose and not in an instructional sense in regards to its origin in human nature. Hate is as common as love. It is the product of feeling passionately about something or someone. If one cannot love, then they likely cannot hate, because one must first love something passionate enough to trigger extreme anger or hate. Thus, if you are proposing reducing hate, the consequence is the reduction of love as they are opposite wings on the same bird. As I said before, grief has many stages, one of those being anger or hate, while yet another is denial, which seems to be the stage of grief that you are in over the black condition. Either you are in denial or just don’t have the love for black people to trigger any stage of grief.

I am not confusing petty white bigotry with hardcore institutional racism. Yes, laws have changed and white racism is down by law. However, as this nation demonstrated in going to war with Iraq, people can be convinced to do the wrong thing by the proper propaganda. I am not so much comforted by laws as you are, because slavery was once the law as well and when white folks are stressed, their character will lead them to create and change laws so that their interest are protected. All it would take is that terrorist start using blacks from other nations or hear and an all ready suspect people for criminality would become public enemy number one and profiled as such. There are MANY things that can happen in the future that can and likely will change laws to be pro white again.

You are wrong to say blacks do not value education. Blacks value education more than ever and have achieved educational levels higher than ever. The problem is that the bar keeps getting raised and blacks have never been able to make up the inherited disadvantage from years of slavery and oppression. So do not come with that old tired blacks are not valuing education line…because we are more than ever as demonstrated by educational attainment relative to the past.

America worships money and wealth, PLUS, it’s a racist white society. You act as if the concepts are mutually exclusive. The latter has historically been the means to the end of the former via seesaw economics. One group of people lifting itself up by placing the weight of burden and oppression upon another group of people. The present is the creation of the past. Thus, what this nation is the product of what this nation was, which is racist. If I spent all my life as a criminal, but have not committed a crime in months, I am still a criminal in the eyes of most, regardless if I have stopped committing crimes in the present and near past. Who I am is defined by the sum total of my life, not a moment in my life.

 
At 9:25 AM, Blogger Constructive Feedback said...

Nmaginate asks:

[quote]Tell me (and perhaps you can prove me wrong) are the people who found or are instrumental in say... Black oriented, high achieving schools like the one you spoke of in the metro-Atlanta area "liberal" or conservative?[/quote]

To answer your question. I don't think that the label "liberal" or "conservative" as it applies to the political domain that you would like to apply to them - as evidenced by their political party affiliation.

My children go to a high achieving, all Black, private school in the metro area. I am sure that the majority of the teachers there do as 90% of other Black people do - Vote as Democrats. Guess what - I have little doubt that the bulk of WHITE teachers who teach at white high performing schools also vote in such a manner.

Now if you want to step back and dispose of the label "liberal" and "conservative" and focus on their ACTIONS because these actions span both of these containers I would say that the founding family of this school is working in alignment with my thoughts. They founded this school in 1976 to address the weaknesses in the local public school system, which at the time this small city of East Point GA was majority white and in her view failed to address the specific needs for young African American students.

I like the school spirt that is encouraged. I like how the proctor stands at the door and makes sure that everyone is dressed appropriately and that their shirts are tucked in.

I like the programs that work to express the cultural heritage of the students.

So you see, there is little about this school that can easily fit into the container that you put forth. (As my friend Noah says - this is not a BINARY decision).

Now let us step back and look at this school in the context of national politics. Please record the first thought that comes to you mind when I ask you if Black Civil Rights leaders general support these type of schools that are outside of the public school system or if they see them as a threat to public schools?

I also should note the presence of the KIPP Academy that is about 3 miles away from my children's school. This school is housed in a once abandoned public elementary school that is located right on the border of a public housing project.

This school is also an attempt to directly address the unique needs of these impoverished students. These people who administrate the school have certain "bleeding heart" motivations but they also construct a framework of limits in order to focus the students toward education. Rules: come to school at 7:30am on time and leave at 5pm. Parent and teacher sign a contract that they will comply by the rules. There is clear consequences if the rules are violated.

Again - liberal and conserative are trumped by the label of GOOD EDUCATIONAL POLICIES.

 
At 3:35 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Renaldo,

First of all, you're the one that inserted stupid ass Binary, Right vs. Left Politics in this with your monologue earlier. ("One day all Whites and B-Con's will disappear"... or whatever the hell you were talking about.)

And I could give a fuck if Civil Rights types support the school or not. The fact remains that most of the founders, administrators, and teachers of such schools are "liberal". Now, when something like that is presented you don't want to play Right vs. Left.

"Those things are anything but "liberal"... You can't put that in that type of box."

Renaldo, don't cry because I've killed you with your own sword. We've long since suggested that you and others like you who come her dispense with that Right vs. Left bullshit. But, if you want to play it like that, don't get upset when I ONE UP your ass.

The fact of the matter is those schools largely are representative of the liberal or progressives you rail about. I'm on record with putting the Civil Rights type of leadership in the same "Sell-out" box as most B-Con's. So what is your problem?
Why do you keep singing to same irrelevant song?

But, on the real, I happy for your children.
I didn't know they were going to such a school.

But, as we have pointed out here... You don't see threads or opinions raised in support of the Jesse Jackson's or White or Black Liberal congressional members. So kill that madness you're on (trying to associate us with that BS.)

 

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