July 05, 2005

The importance of having our own Language...

"Note: this was written prior to my vacation, having went home, I can attest to the realities discussed in this piece as still being true today."


As I was out doing a little shopping today going from store to store, from swap meet to swap meet, I found myself in stores and shops owned by a diverse group of people including but not limited to Black folk, Asians, Arabs, Whites etc.. But the one thing most of these stores and when I say most I mean well over ninety percent of them had in common was the store clerks of these stores and shops were mostly if not exclusively Mexican men and women barring the owner and his family. Clearly this is because the majority of those who frequent these stores and shops are Mexican. However, I thought back to how our community shops and stores that were mostly if not exclusively frequented by Black men and women were also owned by people from outside our community but they did not hire us to work in these stores and shops as they now hire Mexican men and women to work in them. Then it dawned on me, it's the language!

It is no secret that Black men and women were robbed of everything that was uniquely ours and those things were replaced by things that were uniquely European. This includes religion, culture and the language we speak. Surely we all have thought about if not debated the fact that Black folk in America are amongst the small group of Black folk on the earth that speak one language exclusively and it is the language of our oppressor, but how often do we stop to think over how much this reality has worked against us.

During our enslavement here in America we had to develop a language system that was only understood by us, this was done to pass messages alone and warn others of coming danger or possible planned escapes or insurrections. White folk did not understand what we were saying and thought we were just talking and singing but within our words was a message for our people. This historical reality underlines the importance of having ones own language and demonstrates how empowering having a distinct language can be or at the very least it demonstrates how empowering it is to communicate with ones own people in a way that is different than how we communicate with others.

Today in America, Mexican men and women are a good example of how empowering having ones own language can be while simultaneously reminding us how disempowering being robbed of ones language can be.

If merchants who set up shops and stores in Black communities to make a living off of our dollars had to speak a language that was unique to us in the way Spanish is unique to Mexican men and women we would see a different reality in our communities. Imagine if Black folk in America primarily spoke Swahili or Yoruba and English was our second language, this would mean all outsiders looking to do business with our people and in our communities would have to learn our language or hire us to help them do business in our community versus just moving in and setting up shop. Present day realities says that outsiders would employ us versus learning our language on their own as witnesses in places where Mexican men and women are the majority of shoppers. However, being that we only speak English which is basically the language of the land, the merchants serving our community need to only speak it, thus there is not a need for them to hire any one from our community so that they can communicate with us as they must do to communicate with Mexican men and women who only speak Spanish.

The loss of our language by way of our enslavement and not having a language that is uniquely ours has enabled outsiders who come to this country and need to learn English (the language of the land) to do business here to also use the English language and the fact that Black Folk only speak the English language as their catalyst to prey on our people and our community thus exploiting one of the many fallouts from our enslavement “The loss of our language”.

28 Comments:

At 8:59 AM, Blogger Rod said...

This is a very interesting take on the significance of language in contemporary society and one I had not considered. I would like to make a couple of comments.

1. Though I agree, having a distinct language would be a unifying force that perhaps would have nullified or at least slowed down the fragmentation of our community, at no point have we had such linguistic unity. Given the diverse dialects of Africa, it could be argued that being forced to learn English has worked to our advantage. And though we didn't share a common language per se, we did share a common culture.

2. The economic benefits of an alternative language, as in the example you give of Mexicans or Spanish speakers, being hired to communicate with Latino customers have clearly created tremendous employment opportunities for bilingual workers. This is a unique phenomenon, however, resulting from the fact that there are millions of Spanish speaking people just across the border who are pouring into our country in droves. Even if we did have a common African language the growth potential of speakers of that hypothetical language and those who speak Spanish would be very disproportionate given that Africa is on the other side of the ocean. Therefore the economic benefits for black people would not be nearly as substantial.

Again, very interesting post.

 
At 10:27 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

Rod,

1.It is true today in Africa and it was true when we were captured and brought to America that many of us come from different tribes, and in many cases warring tribes that spoke a different dialect but we must remember a dialect is derived from a language thus while we may have had different dialects we still had a means of communicating with one another as needed. I am certain our capture was not the first time our different tribes were forced to communicate with one another. Many African dialects share the same words thus I believe we would have been able to communicate with one another and did so early on. With that said, I will not deny that speaking one language may have worked to our benefit in some ways but who is to say the dialects we spoke would not have evolved to suit our communication needs.

2.This point I completely disagree with. Consider this Rod. As of now the Black and Latino population is basically equal in size, but we know within that number of Latino men and women are African men and women from a Latin Nation. Our respective populations hover around 35 million, at one time Black men and women numbered closer to 40 million if not surpassed the 40 million mark thus the benefits afforded Spanish speaking men and women in this country today because they speak a different language and if one is to do business with them they must be able to communicate with them using their language would have definitely worked in our favor in the same way and with the same degree of economic benefits they are experiencing today. Also, considering that we have out numbered Spanish speaking men and women in America in large numbers until recently, the economic fallout from that many years of having a language used to our benefit would be impossible for Spanish speaking men and women to match or even catch up to. So knowing that, you must admit that the economic benefits that would have been afforded to us over the years would have been far more substantial than anything Spanish speaking men and women have or will experience especially considering they have yet to grow into a group as big as we once were which means they have yet to experience the economic benefits of having a unique language we would have experienced had we actually had a language of our own.

 
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What African language do you suggest we learn? I assume you speak some of these languages?

It’s funny that you talk about language when the closing sentence of your last post is five lines long with no punctuation to speak of. The sentence before is four lines afoul. How are you going to learn Yoruba before you’ve learned English. I speak English, Spanish, French, and a bit of Italian. I learned Spanish from birth because my working class black parents paid our Mexican baby sitter to teach me. I took four years of French at the inner-city shit-hole public school I attended. I took more French in college, which led to spending a year in Aix-Provénce in an exchange program I paid for by working at Burger King eighty hours a week for three years. During that year I became fluent. Currently, I’m teaching myself Italian. I grew up very poor but I learned languages, and others can do so as well. My parents considered it imperative that I learn languages at a young age; and I can’t communicate how much it has helped me advance in life. I truly believe that raising black children with only one language is to seriously impede their future. And it doesn’t take a lot of money, entitlement, or elite schools to do it. We simply don’t hold each other to high enough standards; it’s sad really.

It’s silly to talk about the loss of our various African dialects when so many African-Americans are illiterate. We are so far behind when it comes to basic literacy and English proficiency; that running around speaking Swahili isn’t going to help us. Sure, we could all learn an obscure African language, but how is that going to help us?

Furthermore, If you think that Spanish has helped Mexican Americans in this nation, then you need to do some research. I assume you’re basing this grand summation on a study or something factual, and not simply your observations while on vacation. In actuality, Mexicans immigrants are trapped in a vicious system of labor exploitation, and the language barrier has primarily been an economic impediment that segregates and ghettoizes.

A linguist you’re not. Suggesting that dialects can be understood because they are a derivation of a particular language is just wrong. In most cases, dialects cannot be understood, despite sharing a similar origin. This is especially the case throughout Sub Saharan African, China, and South Asia. I suggest doing a little homework.

“Language of the oppressor;” you don’t know how silly you sound when you say that. I don’t know what era you’re living in. I don’t know about you, but I’m not oppressed, I’m free and thriving. Pull that old dusty Encyclopedia Brittania off the shelf money, and look it up; you’ve been free since 1965. I teach English to inner city youth, and if we don’t master it, we’ll simply continue to fall through the cracks. Don’t waste time pontificating about languages lost.

Claudia

 
At 2:31 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Claudia you are about as ignorant as it gets round these here parts. I did not once suggest we learn a different language nor did I ask for your history and background but that is something you have been salivating at the mouth waiting to share with us since you first found this Blog as do most of those who disagree with what is written here. I hope you are better at teaching reading comprehension than you are at comprehending what you read. Not one thing you wrote contradicts what I said, which means you were only looking for a way to interject and tell us all about yourself, your upbringing, your accomplishments when truthfully none of it is relevant to what I wrote.

Interesting enough, you wrote about the illiteracy rate and how far behind Black folk in America are but that song will change once we speak to the causes of those things and that’s when you will sing the new negro song about how big the Black middle class is, how many college graduates we have, how many of us own our own homes etc.. Negroes are so predictable. You are clearly one who can not see the forest because the trees continue to blind you but stick around we will help you get past this to.

To dismiss the way in which language bonds a community and helps the homogeneity of that community is utter ridiculous, the things that you say speaking Spanish does to Mexican people are true but yet these things do not contradict the reality that their language demands that if one wants to serve their community they must speak their language and or hire them as a means of getting access to their dollar an advantage we do not have. Furthermore, living amongst one owns people or segregation as you call it, is not a bad thing as you seem to believe. Mexican men and women labor pool is not taken advantage of because of their language, surely a smart person like you know this, they are taken advantage of because coming to this nation from their homeland and being poor they are willing to work for less and this have absolutely nothing to do with their language no more than Wal-Mart exploits in China has to do with Chinese men and women speaking Chinese.

But here is what I will do for you Claudia since you are salivating at the mouth to tell us all about your self, I am asking that you go ahead and share everything there is to know about you below so that we can get that out of the way. Tell us about your parents, your college, your H.S., your friends, how much money you make and anything else you think will make you appear really big. Also look for any misspelled words, run-on sentences, lack of punctuation in what I just wrote and holla back at Faheem. There is one mistake for you, clearly “holla” is not a word or the correct usage and spelling of the word “holler”.


When you done doing that if you still have blood circulating through your fingers from telling your life story, please speak to what is written here if you have anything to say about it.

 
At 3:07 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

FAHEEM...

I will never understand why or how you and NOAH continue to be so diplomatic with such BS. This self-deprecating BS...

Since we're indulge tangents and all... Here's something I think you'll enjoy looking over.

http://africanamerica.org/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/79160213/m/6831081103

Some of that applies here. But to the point. Let's look at what CLAUDIA said:
"It’s silly to talk about the loss of our various African dialects when so many African-Americans are illiterate."

Hmmm.... And the Linguistic/Language Personal History was for what? An indication of what Black people CANNOT learn when properly exposed, focused and trained?

Now that's the silly shit.
Obviously, there are some undisclosed issues here. Maybe CLAUDIA will divulge them. It seems pretty silly to talk about the languages "she" was able to learn even in here Inner City school(s) and then act like even a project/prospect of learning a different, African or African-inspired language is "silly"... as if learning English is somehow the Language Litmus test and all other factors that go into the historical and current reality of an African descendant people learning English somehow are non-existent or because she is the Litmus Test or something.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many self-professed (or self-proclaimed... as in self-promoted) smart people with such grand educational pedigrees or whatever degrees make the most ignorant statements based on one of the most well known unreliable bits of evidence in an argument or statement trying to present a case for or against something: ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

 
At 3:51 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

I guess you did not know Nmaginate, Claudia is one of those super duper Negroes who can do all and learn all but the rest of us dumb illeterate Black folk are incapable of learning as she have. She is special, I am sure she will share more about herself with us, I can't wait. It is scary thinking that this woman is a teacher with such a superiority complex.

 
At 3:59 PM, Blogger Maya Frida said...

Faheem,

What a good and important post. Thanks!

I could not agree with you more about language. That is one thing people here in the U.S. cannot stand about Mexicans and other Latinos - the fact that we have not lost our language. But that is only true to a certain extent. Many people who lived in the Americas spoke native languages (not dialects becuase one native sister told me that is what the colonizers called their language) that were not Spanish. Many still do. That has been lost by many of our people.

So not only have we lost much of our culture and language but acquired two colonized languages - Spanish and English. I wish I knew what tribes my family are from, but unfortunetely good records were not kept by my family.

I am happy though, to still speak the "new" language (Spanish) of my people and that I have also learned English. It is beneficial to be bilingual, because we know that English is spoken here, laws are in English, etc. so obviously it benefits those of us who speak English to not get screwed by not understanding that language. Many times people are taken advantage of with contracts they don't understand, not knowing their rights, etc. However, I realize that knowing another language than English feels threatening to many Americans. They feel as if they are bothered and inconvenienced by even having to acknowledge that another language exists so popularly spoken that they must now create things written in thta language (i.e.Spanish, etc.)

Yet in other "developed" countries, people must learn new languages and they are multi-lingual as part of their public education system. Yet, I sometimes feel many Americans have a "lazy" type attitude when it comes to learning other people's language and culture. I know ya'll are gonna get pissed cuz I said "lazy" but I lack use of a better word for this example. :(

For me at least, it has been a unifying experience to speak Spanish. I can still relate to my family back in Mexico and friends and family here. I love that my parents never let us forget Spanish and that they embraced us being bilingual. Even now, I wish to learn more about the native language and culture of my family before the Spanish influence.

Unforntunetly, I have not been paid at a job more for knowing two languages, hopefully I can insist on getting paid for my beneficial skill of knowing another language commonly spoken here.

I can't stand when reactionary Americans fume at the thought of bilingual education and try to push their "english-only" agendas. This country is one probably the most assimilated of all and it's a shame that many people (many who are european immigrants) don't even know where they came from, but now call themselves white and blend in with this anti-cultural mentality. Culture is an important thing, which also includes language and it should not be lost.

Oh...one more thing..
about that comment that Claudia (AKA anonymous) made about Blacks being illiterate..that is a product of the shitty public school system and how much shittier the schools are in poor neighborhoods. That is great and all that you learned all those languages, but maybe you can learn how to speak to your people, and the working class peoples. I doubt your french and italian will help you much in that arena.

Language which ties directly into culture, when embraced not only is unifying but it gives off a pride that is very much necessary within many of our communities.

thanks again for the post faheem.

your sis,

consuelo

 
At 4:03 PM, Blogger Maya Frida said...

Oops..sorry about the typos..I did not edit or spell check my previous post. hope that it make sense for the most part.

 
At 4:19 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

FAHEEM,

I can't understand how they maintain that BS pretense. Their whole Negro Mantra is, in essence, "If I can do it. You can too." But, obviously, these NEGROES do think their superior and have something to brag about because they sure do love to play up Black "Failure" in the same place where they self-promote their "success(es)".

And, it really does seem like only a select few of us poor, self down trodden Black folks can speak the Bill Cosby and WHITE [America] KING'S English...

Ummm... can we have some stats on this SO MANY (as in paralyzing, "We can't do shit" because it's such a sizeable portion of our population) number?

You're right, FAHEEM...
Get CLAUDIA in another conversation and she would, no doubt, drift into a SCOTTISM. She will, perhaps, without fail talk about... hell celebrate the idea of 75% of Black people = Middle Class. Not only that but she would probably add those from her (and my) own Working Class background in an effort to talk about how much "progress" has been made, etc.

Hmmm.... I guess all of that has happened without much of any "progress" in literacy since SO MANY Black people are, flatly... ILLITERATE.

 
At 5:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually Consuelo, my Spanish has helped me connect with my people in Cuba and Puerto Rico, as well as in the Bronx and Brooklyn. My French has helped me connect with my people all through Francophone Africa, where it’s the dominant lingua franca. Italian, I must say, is an indulgence. I just love Italy; what can I say!

For someone touting the cultural benefits of language, you should be able to conceptualize how these skills enable me to connect with my people. The whole point of learning multiple languages is to connect with people.

Superiority complex, Faheem? I don’t think so honey… It’s not my fault that you feel –
as you say – dumb, illiterate, and oppressed. Why are you so threatened by my accomplishments? You might want to consider how your hysteria over my stated language acumen sounds: what does that say about you?

I teach my kids to walk tall and proud, and to not slither around talking about how they’re oppressed with no agency, and no power. I instill it in them that they do have power, and if they educate themselves, they can change the world. I try to make sure that they evade that broken down victim attitude that I’m seeing articulated here. Get over your pseudo-Afrocentric nihilistic blame game…it’s so 1992! It went out with Africa medallions and Malcolm X baseball caps.

It’s really pathetic how blacks that are highly educated are so quickly characterized as inauthentic and whitewashed. It seems that to be considered authentically black, one must avoid becoming too educated and/or too adept with the English language. I see this all the time with kids I teach. The black kids that excel in their studies are accused of acting white and are quickly ostracized. The kids considered the coolest, the blackest, and the most popular are usually the ones resistant to learning (the bad students). It’s a real problem in our community. Obviously, this plagues adults as well.

Anyway, I’m still waiting for you to back up all the generalizations in your post… I won’t hold my breath. Talk is cheap sweetie pie!

Anyway, I’m just happy that I got you guys energized to start writing with intensity; you needed a little push.

Claudia

 
At 5:40 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

"It seems that to be considered authentically black, one must avoid becoming too educated and/or too adept with the English language."

What the hell is "too educated"?
This is some figment of your imagination. I've yet to hear anyone talk about Michael Eric Dyson, e.g., being inauthentic because he is adept with the English language (perhaps superfluously so)... FAHEEM included.

So, to that piece of BS... I say NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please come with something that makes sense and, yes, something that's actually contends with something presented within the actual CONTEXT of the given commentary/opinion expressed.

The black kids that excel in their studies are accused of acting white and are quickly ostracized. The kids considered the coolest, the blackest, and the most popular are usually the ones resistant to learning (the bad students). It’s a real problem in our community.

This BULLSHIT is not supported by OBJECTIVE (and comprehensive, getting at the root) facts. Hmmm.... and once again your very Anecdotals betray the self-deprecating, castigating BULLSHIT you want to say a lay at the feet of the Black community as if it's something type of far reaching pathology of epidemic proportions.

Please Back Away From The White Media and the myopia of your world.

This, of course, intersects with this "Acting White" BS... Again, objectively speaking, the so-called "real problem" in "our" community as you call it... Hmmm... let's see you go beyond the superficial and talk about the real roots.

Do you have the intellectual acumen, critical thinking skills to speak to that? Or is your talk just that cheap? You know, you can only stay on the surface, making claims, repeating bullshit as if the shit is self-evident?

HOLLA!! : )

 
At 6:05 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

CORRECTION:

"This BULLSHIT is not supported by OBJECTIVE (and comprehensive, getting at the root) facts. Hmmm.... and once again your very Anecdotals betray the self-deprecating, castigating BULLSHIT you want to lay at the feet of the Black community as if it's some type of far reaching pathology of epidemic proportions."

From a Washington Post article:
Fryer and Torelli based their conclusions on a federally funded survey of 90,118 junior high and high school students in 175 schools in 80 communities nationwide during the 1994-95 school year.

... They... found that more blacks "acted white" in schools where less than 20 percent of the students were African American, while hardly any did in predominantly black schools or in private schools. [b]"These findings suggest the achievement gap is not about cultural dysfunctionality," Fryer said, and that contrary to conventional wisdom, the phenomenon may be more prevalent among blacks living in the more affluent suburbs than among those living in the inner city.[/b]


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/04/AR2005060400126.html

PLEASE KEEP UP WITH THE TIMES and accurate information and do not... do not lean to thine own unchecked, unexamined and obviously unfounded (after examination) understanding...

This opinion, fairly stated, might help you:

http://plumer.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_plumer_archive.html#111793381222724260

 
At 6:30 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

I am so tired of Negroes coming to this Blog simply to promote themselves as being the most intelligent person on the earth. It is amazing to me that Renu, Jones and Claudia can be the three different people and yet they all come to this Blog simply to promote themselves. Claudia, I can assure you sister that I am far from envious of your accomplishments and surely am not threatened by them. I love to see Black people make it and do good for themselves and our people but I can not stand the self congratulatory Negro men and women who believe simply because they have this or that, we should bow down before their alters.

As I first noted in another post, I knew it was only a matter of time before you ascribed to yourself an importance you do not posses on this Blog but yet you managed to do just as I said you would by insinuating you have some how energized us, this is the same self important, self congratulatory B.S. Renu engages in. As far as backing up any generalizations I made, you lack the understanding of what a generalization is, but I will help you out. To generalize is to be unspecific and not absolute, I qualified my generalization by pointing to the shops and stores I visited as having ninety plus percent Mexican clerks but you missed that.

Lastly for one to be threatened by you it must mean you actually pose a threat to them and from what you have shared with us about yourself, I can assure you sister you are far from a threat to me, mentally spiritually and definitely not financially, I mean after all you are a school teacher and we know how deplorable teachers pay is and this is probably where you should be spending your energy, fighting to get teachers the proper pay. I know of no teacher that teaches K-8 that makes more than I do a year and what I do for a living is not close to the importance of a teacher’s job and yet you come here with your self importance, self congratulatory attitude and look down on us and say we have a victim attitude. The real Victim is you and the fact that you accept such low pay for a most important job but I am sure you will hit me with it is not about the money which I will say, I am glad you are of that mind but that does not change the reality behind you being so well educated and so underpaid, probably making less than your white counterpart whom speak only English but like a good Negro you are just a happy camper.

It's a damn shame, that we have made our way to the damn gutter after starting off so well with Brother Rod Garvin's response but this is to be expected when I Negro jumps into a discussion.

Check for punctuations Claudia, I am sure I made a few mistakes.

 
At 7:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice try with the insults, sweetie! How quickly you come undone and start obfuscating to mask the fact that you’ve been out debated. Actually my husband and I ran a successful business for twelve years, which we sold three years ago, and have since retired in our early forties. I teach K-12 now because I want to give back.

Yes, I agree that it’s a shame that teachers at this level are underpaid. But your attempt to assert your financial dominance just proves how fraudulent you are. I can’t believe you would stoop so low as to call teachers fools for supposedly accepting a lower salary… pitiful! Or to suggest that black teachers are victims and “good Negroes” for doing a job they love. That’s just awful and sad brother!

Your ego is sooo fragile, and you are ‘without a doubt’ threatened by me… otherwise you wouldn’t have lost your cool and started bragging about your salary (and right after talking all that mess about how giving personal info is egotistical). Who’s the big headed, egotistical Negro now? You’re looking pretty self-important now… Mr. Self-promotion. You could at least try not to be such a damn hypocrite.

You were in the gutter to begin with Faheem, with that childish rant about lost languages. If you think that recounting your recent experience with Mexican shop clerks supports your wild claims; then you need your head examined. You’re an American, and English is your language; so you (and all African-Americans) had better learn it. That’s all there is to it. You’re trapped in victim mode. I suggest you take a Spanish class and stop whining about slavery.

Next time, bring something real to the table; something you can support… and don’t let your emotions get the best of you.

Now get off my blog chump!!!

Claudia

 
At 7:47 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Back on the topic a bit...
CONSUELO actually hits on something pretty important: The Immeasureable Value Of Culture. One's own self-created and self-determined culture (and all cultures are created by the people who belong to it... over time).

For someone to depreciate that value, IMO, shows they are lost and is the definition of someone without a clue about things AUTHENTIC.

That is to say that the value of one's own culture is not lost on anyone but someone enthralled by someone else's culture. As CONSUELO hinted, you definitely don't see White Americans rushing to distance or devalue what they call their [WHITE] "American" culture and heritage.

I guess all the fights over the English language (in opposition to public use of Spanish, etc.) and multiculturalism is evidence that culture and language are nothing people should be concerned about let alone something people should fight for or over.

Seems like some NEGROES in all their mimicking don't mimic anything but what they are told or allowed to.

Yes!! SO MANY Black people are "illiterate" so none of us should be concern with the value or loss of our own language/culture.

Silly NEGROES!!

 
At 9:17 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

The only American around here is you Claudia, and you trully lack basic reading comprehension. It easy to see in my words that I was not condemning teachers but actually pointing to a fact surrounding their pay, furthermore if I was bragging on myself I would not have included in my words the fact that I make more than teachers whom job is of far more importance. To help you out lil sis, that is to demonstrate how deplorable teachers pay is while simultaneously making it clear to you that you are not the least bit threatening to me or anyone on this blog with all your education and language skills. But you will get it one day, stick around better yet, since you have such great acumen how about starting your own Blog and lets see what you are really about! That would be asking too much of you now wouldn't it. Maybe your Husband can contribute to your Blog.


Nmaginate, Suelo was dead on and being Mexican and living in So.Cal as I do she can bare witness to the truth of what I wrote but it is hard for Negro men and women like Claudia to see past their own self importance.

 
At 2:32 PM, Blogger Dell Gines said...

Good stuff. Language as mentioned provides a barrier to competition. That is why you can have many hispanic speaking shops that get clientele from hispanic speaking people who won't go anywhere else. That is how infastructure in economics is improved. Great post.

 
At 3:50 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Dell,

I hoped you noticed (and don't mind)... I have made sure I posted and linked to your excellent PRIME (Instant Classic!) on The Concussed Black Conservative. That's what I referenced with the AA.org link above.

Big Ups! on that one.

 
At 9:02 PM, Blogger Scott said...

"Imagine if Black folk in America primarily spoke Swahili or Yoruba and English was our second language, this would mean all outsiders looking to do business with our people and in our communities would have to learn our language or hire us to help them do business in our community versus just moving in and setting up shop."

If the black people still knew English as you suggested they could still do business in english. Your idea makes no sense.

The reason they need a spanish speaking person is because their are lots of spanish people in america DON'T speak english.

 
At 6:43 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I have also just returned from a vacation back in Michigan. I would just like to add that Claudia is another manifestation of a recent pattern established by the likes of Renu and Nat Turner Jones, as well as others. IQ is measured by ones pattern recognition ability, for the most part. The obvious pattern, most recently manifesting under the user name of Claudia, is an attempt to discredit the message substance by discrediting the message form via a hyper fixation on grammatical and literary perfection.

That having been said, language acumen and perfection does not necessarily equal a high IQ and the lack of language perfection and acumen does not necessarily equal low IQ. Moreover, Language acumen in only an indication of training in language and not an indication of a well rounded formal or informal education. A person could have simply put all their learning and interest in language to the degree that they are sub par in other areas of knowledge such as mathematics and reasoning. Furthermore, speaking and writing with linguistic perfection says nothing about character, honesty, integrity and freedom from forms of bias that can and will subvert truth.

 
At 8:26 AM, Blogger Scott said...

I find it interesting you guys love to comment on one person making comments but not on the logical flaws of the original idea.

And using Mexicans as a model of success is just scary.

 
At 9:53 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

SCOTT,

Do you try hard at being utterly, ridiculously STUPID? Or does it come natural?

Using Mexicans as a "model of success"??? SCOTT, please!! This contrarian bullshit has to stop. Please learn how to READ.

Note I did not say MIS-read.
Or let's put you on the spot like this. No evasions:
When you use the term "Model Of Success" what do you mean? What does the concept entail? That Mexicans are the exact thing, in total we should be/emulate?

That seems to be your anti-comprehension idea presented here. Typical, of course. But this STUPID SHIT has got to stop.

... Here we go...
WHERE DID FAHEEM SAY MEXICANS WERE THE MODEL OF SUCCESS?

This stuff is getting old, SCOTT. You bullshit is soooo underwhelming and, as always, off-the-DAMN-point!

 
At 10:47 AM, Blogger period said...

I was just passing through and caught your blog. It's definitely hit a nerve.

The negativity in it and the amount of focused energy on an issue that, honestly, would be more hindering to you than anything else, is apalling.

Why would would want to separate yourself more so from your "oppressor"? Use the tools you have been given and lucky enough to come across to uplift and rise above this nonsense. You create your own world, life, calling, future. What do you suspect will come of it if you're so focused on being held down? You will always be held down! Because that's where you choose to be.

It only takes change of thought to change your life and the things that you "see" in this world. And I guarantee that the language barrier is not the only reason those Mexicans are being hired. It has a lot to do with cheap labor. And as far down as you want to pin yourself I gather you're much smarter than to take a job at the swap meet for three dollars an hour.

Just try it for a minute. See the good. Use your gifts to your advantage and rise up!

 
At 12:27 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Well its quite obvious that one would glean negativity from this Blog given that our basic methodology is to present causes and effects to the black condition. The truth of the matter is that American history has been negative to black people in America. The fact that we talk about this negative history in relation to our present condition should not be cause for condemnation of the messengers, but rather, the history of cause and effect and the lack of accountability and responsibility on behalf of institutions that made the negative history possible.

There is no “Luck” in what descendants of slaves have come across in modern America. Whatever we come across in this land is rooted in the enslavement of our ancestors, who more than paid the price for what you find us “Lucky” to posses. Furthermore, while the individual does exercise a degree of control over his or fate, he or she does not manifest any where near total control were one can make the claim that the outcome of your life is totally in an individuals hand or sphere of influence. Such a claim of control is ignorant and preposterous. The reality is that we exist in a modern era of firms, workers and consumers who create a triangular interdependency where individuals do not have direct control over their fate.

When human lived off the land and had access to land to grow crops, raise livestock and exist off the fruit of the sweat and the will of nature, then one could claim a direct control over their economic fate, barring nature’s wrath. In today’s complex capitalistic interdependent construct, the individual is not king, but rather, the collective harmony of firms, workers and consumers providing opportunity. If such was not the case there would be no recession or depressions as people would not choose to be without income that provides food, clothing and shelter.

I am glad this blog hits a nerve with you….as all should be unnerved by what this nation’s institution have historically done to create the black condition of inequality which exists today…which these institutions now abdicate any accountability and responsibility for.

 
At 5:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even if all the names you mentioned were aliases for one individual, that would not change the fact that you cannot form an articulate counter-argument that is cable of supporting the half-baked theories you present here. Hell, you don’t even try to support them (avoiding support is your primary diversionary tactic).

For instance, where are the studies that confirm your claims about intelligence? Sure, there are many brilliant black folks in the hood that can’t read and write. But without those tools they are unable to compete in society. I know plenty of Ivy League educated people of all races that are dumb as hell, but they have the tools to succeed… and they do. It doesn’t matter how intelligent you are if you lack the tools to unlock and express it. Like it or not, ones ability to communicate largely determines the limits of their professional potential. Nobody cares what your IQ is; but they will judge you harshly if you lack the ability to write and speak with sophistication. Noah, stop trying to rationalize and defend black educational deficiency… it just makes you sound dimwitted.

Yeah, yeah, yeah… we know; it’s the white man’s fault!

Anyway, your biggest problem is that the ‘supposed’ historical truths that you present here are almost always inaccurate. The appalling negativity on this blog is not borne of the harsh realities of black misery. Certainly not: in actuality they are borne of the grotesque ignorance and arrogance of the messengers. You have no understanding of national or global politics. Nor do you have a basic grasp of world history, American history, or African-American history. Your ideas are solely based on your opinions; and when challenged to support them with more concrete facts, you cower away. Keeping your views grounded in opinion enables you to protect yourself by staying safely nestled in the bosom of conjecture.

I’m just happy that I’ve been able to jump start this forum, and give you guys a reason for being.

Claudia

 
At 7:37 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Claudia, one does not need a study to glean that when one is cut deep enough that they will bleed. The fact that a phenomenon has been commissioned for study does not negate the phenomenon’s validity. Furthermore, any failure of mine to present studies to corroborate my statements is matched by the lack of studies presented by you that refutes them. You dismiss what I say because it is an opinion, yet you attempt to counter it with YOUR OPINION. Just because something is an opinion does not mean that it is wrong and just because something has been studied does not mean that the valid conclusion has been reached.

The truth of the matter is that despite grammatical imperfection the vast majority of our target audience more than understands it. Therefore, there is no failure of communication there is simply obfuscation by dissenters like you.

Certainly it is your prerogative to express your opinion to say I or we are wrong…but again, you to hold yourself to your stated standards by presenting studies that repudiate any specific claims that we make. You offer no demonstration of studies that support your claim that my or our historical truths are totally wrong. You have set the benchmark for what makes for a valid argument (studies), dismissing the value of opinion, but then fail to offer anything but opinion to invalidate my supposed truths. You are a joke. You are intellectually constipated and a one dimensional bore.

 
At 9:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for proving me right Noah... well done!

Claudia

 
At 8:37 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Your welcome...anytime.

 

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