October 24, 2004

TRYING TO SUPRESS THE WHITE SUPREMACY SUBCONSCIOUS IN AMERICA

It has been said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. In conversations with seemingly well meaning whites, it becomes obvious that they are “trying” not to be racist. Such represents a conscious effort either to be or to appear void of this traditional American infection upon our nation.

Trying not to be racist is not the same as not being racist. It is like trying to be anything. If you have to try, it means that you are not there yet. However, trying does deserve praise. If the effort of trying is not rewarded, in spite of its lack of complete success, going forward the act of offering an effort will seem fruitless.

Whites seem to fool themselves into believing the effort, in and off itself, exonerates them from being guilty of racism. As long as they remain cognizant and seek to act in such a way that is deemed fair or neutral, they like to assume success from that effort. This also involves introspection of their intentions. Thus, if they have no intentions to be racist and are cognizant, they feel pretty good about themselves.

The fallacy in white thinking is that they are using the wrong metrics to gauge the success of their efforts. Whites do not use the metrics of effect or black response to gauge whether or not they are being racist. There like a person stepping on your feet and then not saying excuse me because they had no intentions of doing it. Then they insult you further by suggesting that it should not or does not hurt in the way that you say it does.

Implicit in much of whites effort to try and not be racist is the racist act of disrespecting or discrediting black thoughts or reactions. Racism cannot be defined by the oppressor. Whites cannot use their working definitions of racism to determine if they are racist or not. That would be like having the police department review and police itself for wrong doing. There is an egregious conflict of interest in such an act as few human entities will self incriminate itself.

In order for whites to truly measure their racism, they have to be able to see into their sub conscious, which is not easy to do. The subconscious contains the TRUTH of what you really believe. The conscious represents what you WANT to believe. If a person does not want to see the truth, if the truth is damaging to the psyche of self image, then the conscious sometime distorts reality in order that the mind can feel good about itself.

This society has been successful in making racism a taboo among whites. Thus today, one of the worst things that you can call a white person is a racist. There are few terms that will incite the emotions that this term does. Consequently, whites are making an effort to “try” and not appear racist, to avoid the label and stigma. Surprisingly, whites are less concerned with trying to convince blacks that they are not racist than they are trying to convince themselves and other whites that they are not racist. This is because whites simply have less respect for black thought than they do white thought or their own.

Whites realize that evidence of continued racism only works against their desire to see programs such as Affirmative Action come to an end. If more whites were openly racist or did not try to convince themselves and other whites that they are not, then Affirmative Action would and should never end under such a racist white power structure in America. Consequently, trying not to be racist could in part be a strategy that is driven by racism, because it wants to preserve white privilege by eroding programs like affirmative action.

In conclusion, the people to be wary of are the one who must “try” to be nice to you. Such shows a person who is saying that there natural inclination is to dislike you and be mean to you. These are the type of people who will jump on the opportunity to “be themselves” as soon as you provide them with the excuse or opening.

America is full of white folks “trying” to be nice and “trying” not to be racist.






25 Comments:

At 8:46 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

__________________ N O A H _____________________

I'm glad you decided to address this issue.
Of course, I could say a lot and speak to and possibly expand on a lot of your points. However, as for now, I would just ask you and Faheem to consider also speak on:

[1] What DIALOGUE is. And What It Isn't...
... both in general and in specifically as
it relate to "racial" dialogue.

[2] What WHITE SUPREMACY is. And What It Isn't...
... I believe this has been discussed before here
but the precipitating events, I believe warrant a
new examination. Particularly as it relates to the
distinction between White Supremacy as a societal/worldwide doctrine that implicates Power Relationships VS. White Supremacy or rather White Supremacists in terms of KKK, Skin Head - aka those "racists" - ideologies.

Also, I'm sure you will and please do elaborate on White Supremacy In Practice in ways that also include so-called well meaning Whites. (You alluded to it in your post... Just asking for actual examples...)

 
At 10:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can you try to be not racist? In my mind, either you are or you are not. There is no in-between.

If you think that you are - and you are unhappy with your status, you can work toward changing your mind and your opinions. Plenty of effort can be done here.

But being a racist means that you think one race is superior to another.

I do not believe that. I am not a racist.

I do, however, do what I can to disabuse racists of their beliefs ... and I also do what I can to help those who have been injured by racism. (Could I do more? Yes. I am a long, long road away from perfect.)

Peg K

 
At 11:27 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Your words do not reconcile with your works, Peg K. A glaring example of this is how you fail to respect black intellect in regards to voting overwhelmingly democratic. The fact that you cannot come to accept that the masses of blacks know what is best for themselves, better than you, a white person, is racist. It is obvious that people vote based upon what is important to them…in other words there interest. You assume that you are better able to know what is important to blacks and hence what is in our interest, in the binary option of voting for democrats or republicans. It also assumes that you have a better intellect to decide between two options as well.

Ignorance is a big part of racism, Peg K. You often lament about the injustice against blacks in regards to sentencing, and a few other things. How did you learn about these injustices? Was there not a period of time that you were not aware of them? If a tree falls in the forest, and a white person does not hear it….does it make any sound? Apparently not, even if blacks can bare witness to the sound. The absence of evidence of a truth is not evidence of absence of its truth. Thus, racism is not limited to what a person like you can witness Peg K. Hence, if you are ignorant that the effects of some of your actions are racist, then how can you be confident that you are not racist?

It is like a person “trying” to be a good parent. The ultimate measure is not upon ones intentions, but the effect upon the children. Regardless of how much you try, if you are ignorant to what the best approach is for any given situation, you can still be a bad parent by making the wrong choices based upon your lack of knowledge.

 
At 11:59 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

"But being a racist means that you think one race is superior to another.

I do not believe that. I am not a racist." - PEG K
________________________________________________________

Peg, What part of the following did you NOT understand?

"Racism cannot be defined by the oppressor.
Whites cannot use their working definitions of racism to determine if they are racist or not."

Further, for one, I did not call you a "racist". I said your not-so-"complimentary" post to Noah telling him what he "MUST DO" according to your philosophy and your presumed (White Supremacy) "Outsiders View Advantage" was evidence of and the practice of White Supremacy. White Supremacy in terms of Power Relationships...

It must further be understood that there is a way to quantify whether people actually believe "One Race Is Superior." Self-admission would be the least accurate measure. Your little post with all its exploded pretenses showed how you do, in fact, believe in even raw White Supremacy whether you acknowledge it or not.

The TRUTH is not contingent on you acknowledging it as such.

You can't explain your comments any other way. You tried the Beauty Compliment justification. I destroyed it by fully matching your analogy to show that "An Ugly woman giving a Super Model Beauty Tips" is beyond insult. It's ridiculous, arrogant and the most ignorant thing... But that's what racism is I suppose. lol

Sorry, PEG... But you don't simply get to self-declare that you're not racist. It just doesn't work like that. Nothing does. You can only be Saved By Grace and not by "works". Though Faith without works is dead... you must have faith, unconditionally.

Yes! You can say you don't believe "that"... like those "racists" over there but your expressed actions here betray your declaration. Remember... "You Have A Right To Comment"... Hmmmm.... That and your Outsiders Advantage invoked in a situation where you admitted that "you don't know what it is like"... ALL THAT, not to mention your ideas as it relates to "offering" things for Reparations, point to nothing but your feeling of White Supremacy.

You can't demonstrate how your thoughts are not indicative of it. That's why you have never 'attacked' my logic. You merely sidetracked that, as is your apparent habit, hoping that a list of your deeds would save you and prove you are not "racist". By the way you express even some of that your own words betray you.

If you don't believe in White Supremacy and you don't believe one race is superior to others... then demonstrate that by forwarding your inquiry were you asked Faheem about "proper redress" to which he answered with (eventually) AUTONOMY.

Now, in a dialogue your role is to listen and understand and not to categorically dismiss. AUTONOMY, demonstrably, was not something that you had a problem with as it relates to [WHITE] Jews/Israel (most and definitely the ruling factions are White European Jews)... So, as I said, the principle is immutable. Not only that but it, IMO, is the only and by far the most effective way to "battle" against WHITE instutional racism.

So how do you explain you reticence to take that discussion further?

It does require for you to agree with it. Dialogue directly implies that it is not about asserting ones disagreement... True and earnest dialogue if anything looks at what is at the root and core of (other) people's thinking. For you to spazz out and categorically dismiss what Faheem said, especially when I openly predicted your response shows that you have no interest in that.

But what is clear is your Paternalism. And that's exact what your "compliment" to know was whether you want to call it "racist" or indicative of White Supremacy or not.
______________________________________________________

 
At 12:00 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Peg, your simplistic approach to who and what a racist is, is the reason many whites you know and white folk in general do not appear to be racist to you. A white person does not have to believe that white folk are superior to Black folk to be racist. In fact a white person action does not have to be racist by motive or intent for the end result of their action to be racist.

I can give you many examples if you do not understand what I am saying.

 
At 12:29 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Yeah, FAHEEM...

It's funny how PEG uses this well documented
"I'm Not Like That" Tactic along with the proverbial
"Some Of My Best Friends Are Black" or rather (specific to her) "I volunteer to HELP [the] Blacks" statements to try to prove that she is not "racist".

The sad part about is, that she actually think the situation from which this arose, that here "I'm Not Racist" defenses were in any way related to that topic.
In fact, her "My dad and I teach/volunteer" directly contradicts part of what was conveyed in the post in question. (From the: WHITE WEALTH 14 TIMES THAT OF BLACKS LATEST STUDY SHOWS! thread.)

From that post and her explanations of what she meant to convey, she expects us to believe that she was solely saying something "complimentary" eventhough she went far beyond that into "suggesting" what Noah and "Guys Like Him" MUST DO.

Of course, I can break that down further but suffice it to say that it is a typical tactic "well-meaning" Whites use - unwittingly, purposefully or not - that really highlights something TIM WISE said:
-----------------------------------------------------
Q: In terms of fighting for racial equity, what specific things do you think whites can do?

A: First, recognize that racism is a white problem...
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featbrasel_75_p.htm

Said there, to some extent, and elsewhere it clear that somehow "well-meaning" Whites tend to look White Supremacy - and its appendage White Power and Privilege (that they feign ignorance to) - and racism and the effects of it all (which they hardly explore or acknowledge) as something that really only Blacks have to do something about; hence, making their commitment and 'burden' as light as possible regardless of their proclaimed dedication.

 
At 12:34 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Even thought I have used the terms interchangeably, I have written essays in the past highlighting what I believe are distinctions with a difference. White supremacy is simply the belief that whites are biologically superior, most notably in regards to emotional and cognitive intelligence. Subconsciously, most whites believe this because of the relative world order of white dominance and black poverty. The subconscious simply takes in all the input that reveals this, unemotionally and stores it. It is much better for the white ego to see black poverty to not be the resultant of slavery, colonization, cold war policies and other actions of whites that produced obvious reactions. That would create an evil self collective image and make lead to self loathing. Instead, the white ego chooses to reconcile the inequalities with black inferiority or white superiority. Every action produces a reaction, despite this fact, whites fail to qualify, quantify and identify the reaction upon black people around the world from over 400 years of their negative activity upon black people. Instead, they will have blacks look to “internal”, for the true cause of the current situation.

Racism, on the other hand, is either rooted in emotions and or ignorance. Most emotional racist are also white supremacy believers. However, not all white supremacy believers are emotional racist. Given that the belief in white superiority is ignorance, most white supremacy believers are thus racist by virtue of ignorance.

 
At 1:45 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

| So often ‘the race problem’ is seen as black people’s fault. But they didn’t create racism – and they certainly don’t benefit from it. |
________________________________________________________
http://www.newint.org/issue145/keynote.htm

 
At 2:00 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

The distinction I make is that White Supremacy has to do with Power and the Power Relationships of Whites to others, Blacks in this case, as opposed to simple attitudes or cognitions about Blacks.

For one to be an adherent to this doctrine or order, there is no need to consciously embrace "racist" ideologies. The bottom line is that a person for whatever reason feels that Whites have the right to rule or have their notions take a "superior" or dominant position to others.

America's Majority Rule Democracy by default (and arguably, historically by design) is effectively White Supremacy. So it is by no mistake that people like PEG would rather the Reparations process be something essentially up for a vote or one with input from ALL Americans.

What they fail to acknowledge perhaps due to the fact that they think Black people are "dumb" is that such a process which not only circumvents the natural process of restitution is purposed act of subjecting the redress of the Black "minority" to the Tyranny Of The Majority. By numbers alone, if Reparations is held as something to be decided on through some type of election referendum, Whites would be empowered to Veto Black redress by their sensibilities...

The invoking of such is, as such, SEE THROUGH... and an hopeful, directed exercise in White Supremacy.

I speak of White Supremacy in POWER TERMS...

 
At 8:06 AM, Blogger Scott said...

Noah said "A glaring example of this is how you fail to respect black intellect in regards to voting overwhelmingly democratic. The fact that you cannot come to accept that the masses of blacks know what is best for themselves, better than you, a white person, is racist. It is obvious that people vote based upon what is important to them…in other words there interest."

That is rediculous logic, you know that voting democratics has not helped black people in the last 20 plus years but you call Peg a racist for also knowing that fact. You know most voters of all races know very little about the facts about their cadidates and their policies or evern how the governemt is run.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2372

"The American electorate does not have adequate knowledge for voters to control public policy. Scholars have long documented the limits of voter knowledge about the institutions and policies of the government. That ignorance is not a moral failing. The rational voter has little incentive to gain more knowledge about politics because his or her vote is unlikely to affect the outcome. Since gaining more knowledge offers few benefits and substantial costs, the average citizen remains ignorant, though rationally so."


I think what you are saying is that only black people are allowed to criticise black people. Would you call her racist for pointing out that most black people should watch thier salt and eat less junk food.

I think you should decide if you want peg to participate on you blog, if you don't just ask her not to post and I am sure she will stop posting. Though I doubt she will stop reading since you are interesting guys.

If you do want her input, please stop calling her a racist every other post because it doesn't add to the discussion.

 
At 8:36 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

Here we ago again with the partisan politics B.S. that the Negro-Cons are notorious for.

Scott wrote “you know that voting democratic has not helped black people in the last 20 plus years but you call Peg a racist for also knowing that fact.”

Let’s just say this is true and I believe it and Scott believes it accordingly. Now Scott I asked this question once before when you was spouting off this same garbage. If voting Democrat has not helped Black men and women in the last twenty years how do you juxtapose this with your knee jerk reaction on things having got increasingly better for Black men over the last forty years and definitely the last twenty. Negro-Cons play the political game with Black men and women. One minute you are hollering how better things are for Black folk and that America is the great bastion of love but it is not perfect and then you holler that voting Democrat has not done anything for us. You can not have it both ways Scott, either things have not gotten better for us over the last twenty years and we are in a worse position than we were twenty years ago, or things have gotten increasingly better and it got better during the time in which Black men and women were voting predominantly democratic.

 
At 9:56 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

FAHEEM,
A big problem with SCOTT's logic is the presumption that if Blacks would not have voted for Democrats over the past 20 years things would have been better. This is weak because it is speculative at best. As far as we know it could have been much worst.

But, of course, it had to be a political party as opposed to the whole political climate in America. Far be it for him to think outside of Talking Points. Far be it for him to seriously render a non-partisan version of the last 20 year history. Far be it for him to consult our history here as a whole.

No! That would be too much like thinking.

So sure it Blacks voting Democratic that's at fault for our lack of political efficacy.

Scott, I have a tip for you:
IT'S THE WHITE SUPREMACY STUPID!!!

As Malcolm X said: They're Both In Cahoots!!

BTW, one shouldn't have to be a constituent of a party to reap benefits and proportional return on their tax investment. And Republicans have been in charge more in the last 25 years than Democrats...
------------------------------------------------------
"I think what you are saying is that only black people are allowed to criticise black people."
------------------------------------------------------
SCOTT, leave the thinking to us. You're obviously not use to using that part of you body yet. There is no way you can interpret what has been said to mean so silly BS like that.

If you're not going to talk about the specific issue from which this arose from or are unaware of it then you need to remove yourself from this conversation because you, just like PEG K have shown yourself to be responding out of ignorance and speaking ignorance as a result.

As far as I know, NO ONE asked PEG K for here "input". She was the one that declared her involvement here as on of seeking a dialogue and to the post in question she claimed her comments were a "compliment" when she clearly went on to give her unsolicited input in a fashion to me that's as insulting as being called a racist must be to her. Hmmm... So that would seem like the first insult came from her, since you want to take count.

Further, if the "criticism" is like an Ugly Woman Giving A Supermodel Beauty Tips then that Ugly Woman deserves ever bit of flak she got coming for having the unmitigated gall and arrogance to assume she has something to offer a Supermodel in her given area of noted expertise.
(And that's what PEG K more or less admitted to. Being the "Ugly Woman" when it comes to Black issues. And none of the discussions have been about anything as simple and cut and dry as proper diet.)

Try again... Scott
_____________________________________________________

 
At 11:17 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Scott, a mind is a terrible thing to waste, my friend. The fact that you point out that the electorate is ignorant to most of the facts is a truth for all races…is it not? Thus, the question remains as to why ignorant whites feel they know what’s best for ignorant blacks. Obviously, there has to be a presumption upon a white person like Peg K to think that she is less ignorant than the black masses. Moreover, most people only make enough time to investigate the issues that are important to them. Rarely do people take the time to try and figure out what is best for other people. Thus, it is simply arrogance and a sense of intellectual superiority for a white person to have the audacity to think that not only do they know what’s best for them, but in their spare time they have actually figured out what is in black’s best interest, contrary to what the black masses conclude is best for themselves.

 
At 1:33 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Faheem : "You can not have it both ways Scott, either things have not gotten better for us over the last twenty years and we are in a worse position than we were twenty years ago, or things have gotten increasingly better and it got better during the time in which Black men and women were voting predominantly democratic."

This is rediculous so any improvement that happens in our world is because of how we voted. Give me a fucking break. I work on internet so my life is better, has nothing to do with how I voted, nor do cellphones, nor does legal enforcement of laws passed in the civil rights movement 40 years ago.


http://blackintrospection.blogspot.com/2004/09/people-died-so-that-we-can-have-right.html#comments
"I think that the tactics of Unions, though much of this nations history, is a good analogy for a strategy for getting the Democratic Party to come to the bargaining table with blacks for concessions."

I took this comment from Noah to mean the democrats have not been delivering for black people.

"The same principle and strategy holds true for blacks and the Democratic Party. It may be time to have a vote stoppage, to force the party to come and bargain with black people over our interest and needs. This can never happen if leaders keep preaching that everyone must vote."

And this is what the black commentor has to say about tradiditional black leadership.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/110/110_cartoon_dangerfielded.html

 
At 1:42 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Nmaginate said: "FAHEEM,
A big problem with SCOTT's logic is the presumption that if Blacks would not have voted for Democrats over the past 20 years things would have been better. This is weak because it is speculative at best. As far as we know it could have been much worst."

That is not my assumption at all. I don't think the party of reagan was ready to take black people seriously, nor did they have a plan that could help us. The Bush republican party is significantly different and can help us. 20 years ago people weren't seriously thinking about vouchers, Lifetime saving accounts, or privatizing social security so we get a better return on our money.

 
At 2:02 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Scott, man I don’t know what to say for you…bro? At one point you are suggesting that how you vote and things getting better do not matter, then you suggest that it does saying that blacks should vote republican. However, if it doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter, regardless of choice. So why the hell you even bothering to vote?

It is correct that I suggested that Democrats have taken the black vote for grated. The democrats are a party that caters to the middle-middle the lower middle and lower classes. The majority of that demographic group is racially white. Class issues and race issues are not synonymous. Thus, blacks do get some benefit from the democrat’s class platform, but they failing to address the uniqueness of our racial issues as black people, such as reparations. On the other hand, the republicans cater to the wealthy (white wealth Is 14 times that of blacks) and the white racist. Hence, blacks receive little benefit from Republican issues.

Both parties cater to a majority white base, thus blacks simply benefit from the overlap of class issues and race issues from the democratic platform. But no party is really addressing our issues a black people under a system of white supremacy.

 
At 3:48 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Scott, what does the internet and cell phones have to do with things getting better for Black men and women? Those thing have benifited all, what I am speaking to is the knee jerk reaction from Negro-Cons about how much better things are in America for Black folk when they hear us "bashing" America. Your kind is quick to say how much better things are now than they were just twenty years ago for Black men and women. However, when it comes to voting and partisan politics all of a sudden you and your kind are in agreement with us that things are bad, the political system in America has failed us and continue to fail us. You see Scott our position is consistant regardless of the arguement or debate, however you flip flopping Negro-Cons positions change depending on the subject. One minute things are better, the next minute things are not better because if they are better that means the Black folk voting Democrat made it better.

Well look at it this way Scott, If things have gotten better for us under Bush as you say it have, then it did not come by way of us voting for him, thus he had to do things to court our vote. If that is so, then why should we vote for him now? We keep voting the way we have and things will continue to get better right? if we start voting for the Repubs, it is only a matter of time before theyh start to treat us as the Democrats do now.

 
At 4:52 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

_______________ S C O T T _________________

Do you like hate yourself? Sadistically?
If not why do you just Flip Flop Til You Drop and destroy your own arguments like you do?

You started this all off taking issue with Noah saying that voting Democrat over the last 20 years hasn't helped Blacks. Faheem's points aside, you then come to say that the Republican party wasn't ready/receptive to Blacks then. So what the hell was suppose to be the alternative?

Since you've agreed there was no effective alternative perhaps up until the Bush administration then what the hell is your 20 year argument about but senseless partisanship? So, basically you made that argument out of nothing but partisanship. There was no alternative so what else but mindless partisanship would make you blame the lack of progress on voting Democrat when voting Republican or voting in any other fashion were no effective avenues?

You point had no basis. You can certainly make the argument that the Democrats could and should have done a lot more and that they don't present an effective political means for addressing Black issues but that's something completely different from the Anal Asinine Talking Points (AATP) that try to blame Blacks for voting Democrat when the best you can say is that Blacks have only had a meaningful alternative, in your own mind, in the last four [4] years.

I think you need to get with you boy Renaldo on the Voucher thing. I wonder why you Black CON's aren't making waves in the party trying to get funds for CHARTER SCHOOLS that are taking whole schools of Black kids, instead of a few, and increasing discipline and performance. Oops! I forgot. You guys aren't setting the agenda there much less participating in agenda setting meetings...

Scott, I could have more respect for your position if you can stay consistent and forward points without later contradicting them.

I have said and still will say that I respect CONSERVO - aka Renaldo because the core of his positions, as I remember them, are principled no matter how much I disagree with certain points and theories of his.

RENALDO, if you are CONSERVO... I invite you to AfricanAmerica.org |http://africanamerica.org/eve/ubb.x
Of course, the political leanings are more to the left there but for some time now the members there have been looking to discuss The [Black] Conservative Agenda For Black America. Unfortunately, the resident would-be B-CON's left a lot to be desired. Me and other guys from TBWT thought you could add a lot to that type of dialogue and I do respect you as someone who could do some justice to the conversation... if you are CONSERVO.
______________________________________________________

 
At 5:24 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

"...if we start voting for the Repubs,
it is only a matter of time before they start
to treat us as the Democrats do now." - FAHEEM
________________________________________________________

That's what SCOTT fails to understand. Noah pointed out correctly and I've argued this with Scott's White political brethren that NEITHER party will risk alienating their White Constituencies to effectively commit to policies that will have any lasting effect for the Black community. In all his ragging about the Democratic party, he fails to connect the Flight Of Whites from the Democratic party with the distancing Democrats had to do for appearing to pander too much to "special interest" groups (Blacks, etc.) and how that coincided with Jesse Jackson's and Ron Brown's visible prominence in the party.

If anything, the Democrats have particularly Taken The Black Vote For Granted in its quest to keep the White voters they have and try to re-attract the Reagan Democrats, etc. who left back to the party or at least not alienate those who are independent and in-between who may be "sensitive" in that way.

SCOTT, like I said:
IT'S THE WHITE SUPREMACY STUPID!!!

To the extent that Blacks have not receive a return on their political investment, it is an indictment of the whole system and you can't dismiss the Two Party Dynamics when trying to assess why Blacks Are Taken For Granted...

With the overall conservative/Republican dominance, it is their agenda the is ruling over both parties. Democrats are trying to play catch up and being responsive to Blacks, openly, is not a risk from a party standpoint that can afford to take and not expect to stay behind, let alone gain ground.

It was Clinton who approved Work-fare and Mend It Don't End It. And the Republicans have been on the Mend Bend ever since... lol
______________________________________________________

 
At 6:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unless you are seriously involved yourself in politics, I have never seen the benefit to pledging allegiance to one party or another.

Why not analyze each election cycle as an entity unto itself? Clearly, the parties DO change over time, and two administrations from the same party can differ greatly.

Today I view it in the best interests of our nation to vote Republican. In 2008, I may feel that the Democrats have better answers.

Whoever said, "won't you have the same problem with the Republicans if blacks start backing them completely" - I would agree. Make BOTH parties listen to you and meet your needs! Whoever does the better job - vote for THAT party.

Peg k

 
At 7:34 PM, Blogger Scott said...

"If things have gotten better for us under Bush as you say it have," I have never said this. You guys need to stop pretending to have read what I have said. You are attributing what you believe are negro-con positions to me.

As Nmaginate said, you need to be specific about what I say, and not group me with other.

 
At 7:44 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Our vote it currency. If we always buy from Sears then Sears doesn't have to offer us sales and value because we always shop there. But if sometimes we shop at Sear and Sometimes at Target they both have to compete for our vote.

Its not about loyalty to either party its about becoming swing voters, because swing voters get paid. Base voters do not. Especially when they are black.

http://blacksforbush.blogspot.com/2004/03/malcolm-x-ballot-or-bullet-malcolm.html

Malcolm said it 40 years ago:


As they see these new political trends, it's possible for them to see that every time there's an election the races are so close that they have to have a recount. They had to recount in Massachusetts to see who was going to be governor, it was so close. It was the same way in Rhode Island, in Minnesota, and in many other parts of the country. And the same with Kennedy and Nixon when they ran for president. It was so close they had to count all over again. Well, what does this mean? It means that when white people are evenly divided, and black people have a bloc of votes of their own, it is left up to them to determine who's going to sit in the White House and who's going to be in the dog house.

But we never learned the lesson. Its time for a change. The black vote must stop selling out Black America by giving away the milk for free.

KERRY can't get elected without the black vote and he hasn't even offered us SHIT. He doesn't deserve our vote. BUSH has already delived NCLB he deservered our vote. Bush also delivered vochers for kids in DC. Bush also gave up to 15 BIllion for Aids in africa and carrbean (sp).

To not vote for someone who is helping your people is stupid. Name one thing clinton did for black people.

 
At 9:15 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

SCOTT,

You won't get any White Supremacy Merry-Go Round disciples here. Stop running from your contradictions. Clearly, if your position has merit then it should speak for itself. Making all the weak arguments that fall apart upon examination isn't helping your crusade.
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"If things have gotten better for us under Bush as you say it have," ***I have never said this.***
---------- CONFLICTING STATEMENTS BELOW --------------
[1] I don't think the party of reagan was ready to take black people seriously, nor did they have a plan that could help us. The Bush republican party is significantly different and **can help us**. 20 years ago people weren't seriously thinking about vouchers, Lifetime saving accounts, or privatizing social security so we get a better return on our money.

[2] To not vote for ***someone who is helping your people is stupid.***
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SCOTT, maybe you don't interpret through your partisan prism that "someone helping" and making things available in order to get a "better" return as being conditions upon which "things have gotten better" even when compared to the last 20 years or so before Bush (which includes 12 years of Republican administrations) where Democrats "haven't helped Black people" but to any honest person there is nothing else you words could mean and no other purpose for such an argument given your ideology.

So come off of the BS and just act like you own a pair and stand on what you believe without all of the Flip Flopping and Toe Tapping around the issues. When you can't make your point and your contradictions are stirring you in your face just own up to it!

If you want to make the argument that the Bush Republicans offer something "better" there's no need for all the other stuff. That sh*t is hurting you anyway because you keep stumbling with weak points that can't withstand scrutiny.

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At 9:33 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

PEG K,
Leave your hypothetical, based on untenable assumptions arguments to your Blog.

Until you can detail how the Republican party has changed enough to embrace things the majority of Blacks view as the priority issues important to them and show how the Republican party fancies to address them in a way most Blacks tend to agree with then and only then can you say something that has some relevance.

You presume or would like to create the illusion that the Republican party has "changed" or has something to offer... but all of that, I'm sure, is from YOUR perspective which is meaningless to this discussion.

Let ask you this:
What issue or set of platform issues do you think the Republicans have to offer to African-Americans that address things the majority of African-Americans say are important to them?

That is, juxtapose the stated political issues and concerns of the majority of African-Americans IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE and with their emphases... and tell me how the Republican party's platform stacks up and addresses those issues the way Blacks see those issues need to be addressed.

I'll await your informed and researched response.
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At 12:41 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

I will share this articulation of mine from another forum:

<| Somehow, the composite of what Abe Lincoln said seems to make [White] people think that such 10% difference which essentially amounts to a semantical squabble on how best to implement WHITE SUPREMACY represents some real substantive, fundamental change. One that erases or off-set the Human Rights violations... One that makes the US less entrenched in its White Supremacy. Lincoln said:
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"...I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races

... there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

... I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/documents/documents_p2.cfm?doc=33
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The demonstrated active principles in White sentiments today on "race relations" echo the some thing today. The Formula may be different, but the Equation is the same.

Also note that Superior & Inferior are RELATIVE terms and not absolute ones and were posed then with respect to one entire group in relation to another group and spoke of group social and political status - i.e. POWER & Privilege; aka WHITE SUPREMACY.

So for those who point out how "things have changed" (the formula) and cite how Blacks aren't denied things as they have been in the past... none of that necessarily speaks to the fact that America is still enthralled, Intent & Content with its inherited (and treasured) WHITE SUPREMACY. Lincoln laid it out. Blacks don't have to be denied everything in order to maintain and preserve White Supremacy. |>
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