April 12, 2005

Misguided and Uninformed criticisms of Black Leadership! Part 3. (the conclusion)

Whenever I make a charge, comment or respond to the actions of a particular individual or group, I try to make sure that I stick to the points in which I am in disagreement with them on, and not bounce from this point to that point in an effort to obfuscate. This is one of the many reasons why, when I respond to comments on this Blog that are not relevant to the op-ed under which they are left, I always remind the commentator to try and stick to the topic at hand. There is no mistaken what I have written, it is right here in plain English, if there is a need for clarity, I would do my best to help clarify anything I have written. I say that to say this, If one is going to spend nearly two hours addressing something I have written, the least you can do is quote me properly and not attribute things to me that I did not write.

In my op-ed's on "Misguided and Uninformed criticism of Black leadership" Part 1 and Part 2, I spoke to the continued criticism and demonizing of Black Leadership by Black folk who have not checked their facts and or are simply perpetuating the thinking of white folk in regards to Black leadership. These op-ed's were written in response to these very things being undertaken by the alleged "Black Think Tank" Afromerica.com whom owner and members claim to be Black Nationalist, but have the writing of a racist web site posted on their site that speak ill of the reparation movement which all "real" Black Nationalist support, States that Larry Summers was right about Cornell West, which any fair minded Black person would know is a lie and the facts surrounding this are laid out in Cornell West latest book "Democracy Matters," and continue spreading the already refuted madness surrounding the media driven phenomena of "acting white", the list goes on but it does not stop there.

In C.R. Hamilton two hour response to what I have written about him and the writings that are on his site, he misquoted me, attributed things to me that I did not write, and did not respond to most of the things I have pointed out about his writings and his site. In the entire two hour he spent so called addressing my writings amongst other things, he did not once address why he has that article from the white supremacist site Frontpagemagazine.com on his site, He inferred that I wrote that he is funded by Conservatives which is a lie and could have easily been checked being that all that I have written is available on this site. What I did say is his site "appear to me to be a front group for Conservative Ideology" especially in how they attack Black Leadership, but this says nothing about funding, one does not have to be funded by the makers of a particular ideology to help spread that ideology under false pretense.

One thing C.R. did address was my pointing out his usage of statistics from the white think tank, The Heritage Foundation whom has a vested interest in spreading lies and propaganda about Black men and women. C.R. in addressing this said boldly at the 1:15:40 point in the show;

"I don't care where the stats came from, they stats, most of the readers look for stats"

He then go on to say I guess talking about his readers who he post the stats for

"if you need stats, you don't got your head on right".

This is the kind of convoluted madness I am talking about, he uses stats from a white think tank and once the stats are challenged, he then says he do not care where the stats are from because they are not for him "they are for the readers", this is the same attitude I believe that led him to posting the frontpagemagazine.com piece. You see, C.R. like so many people simply look for something that compliments his position regardless of the source and he run with it.

Truthfully, I quietly hoped after reading that he would be addressing what I have written on his internet radio show, that he would prove me wrong and give valid arguments refuting what I have pointed out, being that if he did, it would mean he is not using his so-called "Black Nationalism" to spread anti-Black propaganda.. Such was not the case, in fact, after listening to his show; I now have a greater understanding of where he is coming from; it is a place that does not allow him to see past his own religious fundamentalism and dogmatism, thus he accept so-called religious arguments from those on the right who seek to use Black folk who love God and spirituality to spread their propaganda about Black leadership and Black people under the guise of taken a moral stand, I say again, Negro Please....


At 6:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You and C.R. are really not that different. That's the real contradiction. Both of you suffer from a pitiful lack of vision. And both of you are presumptuous, hawkish, dogmatic,and insufferable bores. Besides, this is a hate site if I've ever seen one (reactionary anti-white racism and intolerance masquarading as pro-blackness) Why waste so much time on a hack like C.R. He's not important or influential enough to waste this much time. The real tragedy is that you haven't reached the point in your intellectual development where you understand the value of asking questions and searching for knowledge. All you do is attack with this childish self-righteousness. Are you actually dumb enough to think that you know what's best for African-Americans? I gather that you are. Black introspection my ass! Black foolishness is more like it! A better name for this forum should be, "Misguided and Uninformed Criticisms On Everything Black."


At 7:23 PM, Blogger Constructive Feedback said...

Faheem, Faheem, Faheem

You were doing so good on Part #1.

The only thing that I had problems with was the qualifier of "Progressive Black". As if "I" who don't agree with much of what the "Progressive Blacks" believe in as the proper METHOD to achieve our goals instead have the corollary goal of UN-progressing Black achievements and turning the clock backward as I work for my "White Master".

Sadly until we take an HONEST accounting of where we stand as a people.

Until we make a gut wrenching call as to if the collection of EVIDENCE about the past attrocities can 1)find a court with standing to hear the case, 2) successfully win the case and 3) find a "marshall type" of force that will ENFORCE this judgement


It is interesting that YOU talk about BLACK LEADERSHIP.

If you notice - all that I have asked is that we setup a dEMOCRATIC FRAMEWORK to measure the EFFECTIVENESS of the POLICIES that are espoused by these Black leaders.

Currently it is POPULAR MANDATE that determines the platform that is placed in action.

I maintain that we must have a measuring stick to which we gather that these platform items, put into action for so many years HAVE MOVED US CLOSER TO THESE COMMON GOALS or have left us in neutral or even reverse.

You, Noah, I and many others do not disagree with END POINTS. We disagree with METHODOLOGY. Via our personal quest for power and "one ups manship" the ideological battles take place.

This measure of EFFECTIVENESS that serves as a means of deploying and discarding the METHODOLOGIES that are in place is the only way to ensure sustained forward movement and any hope for "unity" as has been called for during various forums.

I get the feeling that "unity" also means "majority rule". We need to have a framework that adds some STRUCTURE to what that majority will get behind as it is also the case that the "majority" could be following their leaders over a cliff absent a map that was drawn off of a historical reference to how this cliff was fallen off before.

At 8:07 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

BB, all that ask if you going to make allegations back them up. It is easy to say I lack vision, I am hawkish, dogmatic and an insufferable bore that got your attention none the less. This is indeed a hate site, there are many things we hate here and we write about them, it is good to see you have a firm grip of the obvious. This is Black Introspection B.B I am one of the Blog administrators, I can waste time writing about getting an oil change if I choose to, we do this as a means of giving our opinion and analysis; we are not boxed in anymore than any other bloggers to the point where we must write to please everyone.

I would imagine I am no more self righteous than you but unlike you I have not had the opportunity to critique your writings and thoughts over an extended period of time so it is somewhat difficult for me to be certain about your self righteousness but I am sure if you continue to comment on this blog it will be made known.

As far as me knowing what is good for African Americans, I will say this. I do not know what kind of genius you believe is needed to see a problem, and understand how it became a problem and then suggest solutions to that problem based on what causes it. It is really not that hard, you should try it. Finally, you make the same contradictory statements so many others have and that is you first write that we are hate site, reacting to white-racism and then you claim we are criticize everything Black. Which is it, do we hate white people or Black people, I know; it’s both right?

At 12:35 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Renaldo, I am well aware of those amongst us who use different methods to achieve the same goal; however I do not think that is so much the case with you and me, if it were we would have gotten past it long ago.

Here is the qualifier to that, your arguments and positioning rely heavily on using the same ideology that is the foundation of our oppression in this country, and because of that you must put your self at odds with what it is we say and do because your thinking is not your own and is not rooted in the way the majority of Black men and women see the this country and our condition.

If we were simply talking about methods, you could articulate your method without criticizing the method being undertaken by other Black folk if in fact both methodologies are being undertaken to bring about the same results. The NAACP, does not talk down to or about the Urban League and vice versa, however, the Negro-Cons in this nation has built their whole movement on opposing the majority of Black folk and befriending white folk and then expect us to not notice and realize they have aligned themselves with those who oppose Black upward mobility.

The true and sad reality is that Most Negro-Cons act as a shield for white supremacy by using their Black face to articulate white supremacist thought, knowing full well they can not be called racist for speaking as a white supremacist would.

The reason why you can not see how we have logically concluded that one program will be the foundation of our repair is because we have not done such a thing, we know that because our problems are many, the solutions will be many, but quite a few of our problems have the same root and causes. I spoke to this once before when I wrote about finding solutions, I laid out the fact that if we are trying to find the solution to why our children drop out of school and we find the solution to stop it, that solution will be for that problem and can not be used for every problem that plague our community.

The bigger question is why if you do believe our grievances are real do you feel the need to openly oppose the methods by which we seek to end our grievances. We know reparations are not the end all, but it is part of the bigger struggle to find solutions to our problems. My problem with you and others is the extent to which you say certain things are responsible for our condition. Which goes back to my problem with C.R., his writing say Black men and women are inferior to other folk based on Welfare having an adverse affect on us and not anyone else as if a dependency on welfare and that along is what created our condition.

I believe as Malcolm believed, we do not have to agree on the methodology if our objective is the same, thus I ask you this Renaldo, how does the fight for Reparation not help move us closer towards our objective if our objective is the same? How does it contradict our movement towards our objective? One does not have to agree with another’s methodology, but to speak ill of that method puts you in opposition to those who are using that Method. We will witness this dynamic play itself out as the year goes on and we move closer and closer to the Million Man March. One can think, marches are this or that and do not serve a purpose today but for them to speak ill of the march again puts them in opposition to those who supports the march. One does not have to agree with or participate in the Million Man March but to openly oppose it means you have chosen to become a road block and can not see the good that will come from the march if that good is only one brother who attends the march going back home and changing things in his life and his family life for the better.

At 5:47 PM, Blogger Constructive Feedback said...

Well Faheem:

I attended the first Million Man March. It will permanently be fixed in my mind as the one day that I saw the men of my race come together as a fist and resolve to have a greater consciousness about what we are doing as a people to address the problems that face us.

I am a frequent critic of the current "Black Leadership" NOT because I seek to "carry the White man's water" as you suggest is the motivation for those who don't think like you. I am a critic because I see the corner that they are painting the masses of Black people into.

I can no longer be silent about what I see as the continuing placement of African-Americans as a function of what White folks agree to provide for us through certain policies.

It appears to me that the Black powers that be have agree that we deserve to live at a certain level of "Quality of Life" and "Standard of Living" but instead of telling Black people what we have to do to achieve and maintain this they go to the White power structure and show them how much we are lagging from their reference point - that being THE WHITE MAN.

The recent National Urban League report put the White mas as a 100% - IDEAL, what Blacks should aspire to in a perfect world. Put a stamp of approval as a mark of excellence.

I simply dare to ask why is this when there are other people in this world, greater populations, who are GROWING at a faster rate economically than this chosen point of reference. These others have learned how to advance in this so called "White man's world" and put fear in Americans that their jobs might go wayward.

I respect some of C.R.'s words because he is accurate about the concept of "nationalism". I have said all along that some of the things that African-Americans wish to accomplish are not going to be possible as a minority in number in a particular country.

If there was a desire to limit contracts to Black people this would be grounds for a federal discrimination lawsuit. However if Kenya decided to limit it's contracts to Kenyans this would go unchallenged as a resonable practice.

With this right to distribute contracts, however, comes RESPONSIBILITY. They will be responsible for their own affairs and they alone will be charged with lifting their people up to a given "standard of living".

I am critical because I believe that the heart and the consciousness of Black people to do what we need to do on our own has been handed away to some external entity. We have lost our LOCUS OF CONTROL and it now resides outside of our own collective body as one interprets the policies that are popular among Black politicians.

As much as you challenge "conservatism" I choose to look the "gift horse in the mouth" as received from LIBERALISM.

That sign that says "Do Not Feed The Bears" is placed there because those who understand bears know that when the bear makes the association between the food received to quench his hunger/thirst and the hand that is feeding him, the bear will cast aside the succulent trout and salmon in the stream and go for the "easy pickings" provided to him by the altruistic liberal who means well and does not wish that the bear risk cutting his paw on the sharp rocks at the bottom of the stream.

What happens over time, however is worse than can be immagined. You see the mother bear's cubs will fail to learn how to wade in the stream to catch fish but will instead look for that human hand that is feeding his month.

While the fish that he was created by God to eat had a balance of oils and nutrition that the bear needs to stay healthy, the junk food from the humans over time clogs his arteries, makes him over weight and gives him high blood pressure.

That one act of altrisum by the well meaning liberal has done more harm than someone who said "NO GO FEED YOURSELF".

At 8:10 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Renaldo, there is nothing wrong with dissenting and constructive criticism of black leadership. However, when dissention is to the degree that one, as my mother would say, “cuts off their nose to spite their face”, then such becomes destructive criticism. I am not a fan about many things in America, but I would never join external forces who are dedicated to attempting to destroy America. Black folks who are unhappy with contemporary black leadership realize that they have no power in numbers own their own. Thus, the seek to attack and destroy black leadership by aligning with traditional terrorist organization against black progress, in order to manifest their desired Coop. Traditional white racism manifest most profoundly through the politics of Republicanism and conservatism. For any black people to join the ranks and give credibility to these terrorist, just because they dissent against black leadership, would be akin to be aligning with foreign terrorist just because I am unhappy with current American leadership. You made the claim that you did not vote FOR Bush, but rather voted AGAINST black leadership, on another forum. Well, if the Klan sponsored a candidate, your obsession with punishing or dissenting against black leadership would, by binary default, be a vote for the Klan. If you cannot vote FOR someone that you truly believe in….then maybe you should abstain from the vote. In the two party systems of ours, you cannot vote against without voting for and if one is blindly obsessed with hurting black leadership….they may likely end up hurting the black masses as the conduit to punishing its leadership.

You also keep bringing up this Urban League comparison of white and Black. Your mind is so closed on the subject that you cannot even see that your interpretation of the data is simply that…YOUR interpretation…which is clouded by bias. The comparisons were meant to show the degree of inequality that exist between blacks and whites…..NOT a setting of the benchmark based upon white. Instead of interpreting the data the way you did, one can interpret the data to mean that whites need to come down from their anomaly to OUR level. Maybe our level is the natural equilibrium level that is most sustainable in the long run. One can interpret the statistics to be an analysis or snapshot of were the nation is on the road to racial equality, measured in traditional black and white dynamics. In order to measure racial equality, races must be juxtaposed. The one with the highest most favorable figures will always be the 100% benchmark of the ratios. It statistically and mathematically makes sense.

Finally, you are so consumed with someone breaking in the back door….that you ignore the people who are looting your home from the front door. This country is coming into an era of serious social and economic fallout, from the failure of white political and economic leadership….not black leadership. Such failures transcended politics and are rooted in capitalism, individualism, greed and gluttony….the pillars of our economic way of life. These failures and short sighted, immediate gratification and maximization methodology conserves a pent up cost that will be paid in the future…and that future is near. Yet, you continue to watch the back door…the door that black folk had to traditionally use in this nation, for threats to the house of America. Meanwhile, white leadership is coming through the front door and ransacking the place.

At 10:21 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

Renaldo, your Bear analogy is good but it is in no way representative of the dynamics that surround Black men and women and the Welfare system in America. You see the Bear was given food because the person feeding him wanted to share his or her food not because the Bear was being denied access to the River where the he could catch Salmon.

When we are talking about human beings particularly Black folk and White folk in American; this not the case. You see Renaldo, Black men and women received welfare and other government assistance because of white skin privilege and white supremacy keeping us out of those places where we could earn a living wage to support our family, not to mention the lack of opportunity in education and so forth. And then came Affirmative Action to help break down doors that were being used to keep us out and now look at what those who think like you think say about Affirmative Action;

“Affirmative Action makes Black people appear unqualified for the job”

So what it comes down to is anything meant to help us is somehow hurting us, however white skin privilege is not seen as detrimental to white folk attaining employment by way of it or access to various institution of Higher learning using it. How Renaldo, how is it that there has always been more white folk on welfare, more white folk receiving government benefits and subsidies and you and your kind never say of them, these things has a negative affect on them, however when it come to Black folk, we are such weak human beings and inferior to everyone else that Welfare and Race based programs that benefit us is detrimental to our well being. Giving someone Black a hand up is wrong but white folk continue to get hand ups, hand outs and hand jobs and you see nothing wrong with that nor does it make them dependent on the system. It would appear that you are doing just as Noah has said, you have chosen to side the with terrorist and use their ideology against your people and expect us not to notice.

At 3:08 AM, Blogger Constructive Feedback said...

Faheem and Noah:

Don't take my bear analogy litterally but instead apply this to the general consciousness of Black America as it "Kunta Kente was tortured into accepting the name Toby". Kunta came to this land knowing only INDEPENDENCE and self sufficiency. The Americanized Africans looked at Kunta and said "this fool is crazy. Why doesn't he just say the name that Massa Moore gave him so he won't get his azz whipped. Is it worth being physically beaten to hold your ground? What is the harm in a name?"


At 7:21 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

The fallaciousness of your “Bear” analogy is that assumes that Liberalism = Welfare, or simply handouts of something for nothing. I do not see liberalism as having such a narrow scope. I see liberalism as the willingness to spend money to help others, while I see conservatism as representing the lack of willingness to spend money to help others. Spending money can take the form of direct transfer payment or they can take the form of government programs aimed helping people compete with those with greater social and economic advantage. Often, these programs lose efficaciousness over time due to lack of oversight. Oversight cost money and means increasing the cost and tax burden.

Conservatism has the goal of simply not spending money or working to change inequalities or the current status quo. When one has the goal of not spending money, then naturally one will rationalize that spending money on programs and people are counter productive, if not a waste. In truth, liberal government programs have helped elevate millions of people out of abject poverty over the last 50 years. It has also spared many children the type of hunger that could prevent or hinder the learning process or the ability to learn….as proper nutrition is a prerequisite of effective learning.

In conclusion, Liberalism does not equal Welfare. Rather, welfare is just ONE of many liberal programs.

At 7:31 AM, Blogger ill ridge said...

I love this site. Very interseting and heated. Love it. Where do we go from here? How can we unify? How can we pool resources to grow capital and wealth? They stole our land, how can we get it back?

We all know this is a capitalists society, if we have no capital, how are we going to ever get justice? Check me out at www.outdabox7.blogspot.com

At 9:35 PM, Blogger animeg said...

Unification is an important point for black people. I'd say that blacks should support black business, give micro loans to small business owners, and help educate each other on finance. Of course all this stuff is being done in various places, but we need to keep on doing it, and maybe do some more of it.

At 3:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's odd that racist sites never have hosts who know much about mark up. I'm beginning to wonder about the correlation between racist ideals & poor html.

Omar de Fati

At 8:31 PM, Blogger Constructive Feedback said...

The problem is NOT lack of "Black Unity". The problem is the absense of an infrastructure that will move us forward.

Recall in the wake of the World Trade Center tragedy when several people "wrapped themselves in the flag" and demanded that we UNIFY as a nation? In this environment it was unacceptable to criticize the government in the areas where criticism was due.

Many on the Left, particularly Blacks rejected this call for NATIONAL UNITY because it also meant that you were to remain SILENT as your rights were trampled, or so they thought.

As a person who is very critical of the mainstream Black leadership of today I am very suspicious of the call for "unity". What they really are saying is "How about YOU 'UNIFY' under my banner. I am right and you are wrong so YOU need to come over to my camp. See look at the masses of Black people that I have agreeing with me. CLEARLY QUANTITY OF FOLLOWERS MEAN CORRECTNESS."

Again, we need a process to be able to fully vet what we are asked to "unify" behind more than we need to unify for unity sake.

I am more fearful of the PROCESS of MAKING unity than I am of unity itself.

Recall that in the early 1970's the accepted education policy among Blacks was SCHOOL BUSING to achieve integration. If you were an opponnet of this you were attacked as an Uncle Tom, scared to challenge the White man on his own turf.

Years later we find that this strategy has allowed OUR neighborhood schools to fall into non-academic centers as we believed that we would learn by ossomossis by sitting next to a White kid.

Where was the mechanism to challenge this standard policy among Black people absent the attacks on your character and integrity?

Where did those who were promoting the busing policy onto Black people have to JUSTIFY their contention that this would work in the long run?

We need a more dEMOCRATIC infrastructure among our people that allows us to dialogue without the personal attacks that seem to follow when you disagree with a "Blacka than Black" person.

At 6:47 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Hind site normally is 20/20 unless one is biased and or ignorant. No one knows what the state of black education would be like today had it not been for busing. It’s easy to condemn something when you do not have the alternative to compare it to. It’s like Welfare; it’s easy to see the problems once one has forgotten or taken for granted the situation that existed prior to its implementation. There was a good amount of abject poverty in the USA, especially in the South and Urban Cores, with hungry and poorly clothed children who had a tough time focusing on learning in such conditions. Now that it has reduced the symptoms of abject poverty, the disease it was treating, people complain about the side effects of the medication, such as the creation of dependency in some on the medicine.

Busing as an idea did not fail; busing had a target aim….and the target moved as the result racism. The opting for private schools and the acceleration of “white flight” eventually resulted in blacks becoming the majority in school districts and busing only busing blacks to other blacks from one black school to another. If not that scenario, it was the scenario of CLASS, where poor blacks were being bused to poor white areas, while the upper income kids had the better quality schools, be they private or in a rich school district that did not bus.

I think your call for a democratic process to determine black leadership is bogus. It is kind of like the situation with Palestinians, when Arafat was alive. The Bush administration pretends to be big on democracy, yet, they were against Arafat. The administration knew that the Palestinian PEOPLE would elect Arafat in any democratic elections….so they never pushed for elections while Arafat was alive. Renaldo, you know darn well that if there was a democratic process to elect black leaders and platform, that it would essentially be liberal leaning. It might not elect that same traditional faces, but the ideology would most definitely NOT be what you expose and propagate as “the answer”, to black problems.

You are phony because you fiend not respecting and adhering to black leadership because it is not democratically elected. Is not the truth that you would not acquiesce and unify even if it was? The problem is that you simply do not like black leadership and or their ideology and that is why you will not unify under it. The fact that there is no democratic process is just an obfuscation of your true intransigence. It is indeed akin to Bush claiming that they respect democracies, but would not respect Arafat even when or if he was democratically elected. Now that he is dead, they want to take credit for Democracies spread to the Palestinians, as they have a newly elected leader. However, the USA wanted to postpone elections when Arafat was alive because they knew he would be elected in a land slide…and they were not willing to respect him as a leader. You are like Bush…..its not about democracy….its about people and ideologies you don’t like…and the absence of a democratic process simply gives you a false rationalization as cover for your intransigence.

At 7:37 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

RENALDO, if I don't ever agree with you again, this is one thing I wholeheartedly agree in.

The problem is NOT lack of "Black Unity". The problem is the absense of an infrastructure that will move us forward.

And I too see the Unity As UNISOME overtones in calls for "Unity". The first question is Unity Based On What? What are we Unifying Around?

I think making a concerted effort to build infrastructure is the thing we need to "unify" around. I think we need to learn how to navigate around our differences and somehow get to a point to where we have Coordinated Functions.

I think everyones perspectives reflect where their interests and/or talents lie. And I'm all for that. The problem is even when it comes to Who Speaks For Black People Today we don't have a process by which we organically or authentically determine that for ourselves. That's one major piece of infrastructure in terms of institutions that's missing.

I could go on but I'll just reiterate with how much I agree with you on your quoted point, RENALDO. Those calls for Unity are usually pretty empty in that they don't usually reflect the type of thinking that outlines what that means and what all it involves.

The last thing I would want is for us to all be alike and think alike. I think we all have something valueable we can lend to our people's cause. But the first thing is to realize our problems all turn on us having the institutions and infrastructure to support ourselves and build according to what we collectively desire.

We have to seriously talk across ideological barriers and determine where we have common ground and how to Coordinate our individual-ideological objectives in such a way as not to counteract the positive things other brothers and sisters are doing.

But it's pretty silly to talk about Black Leadership when we're not electing/selecting them in any former manner... in terms of representing our collective/national aspirations. It's time that we put that to a vote, IMHO.


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