September 23, 2004

90% Black Detroit proposes Africa Town for black economic empowerment

This is a case study of how white people will always oppose blacks attempts to lift ourselves up by our bootstraps. See one popular white columnist responce. READ A WHITES REACTION

Therein lays the intransigence of white folks. They do not want to see black people “targeted” in attempts to lift up black people. What sense does this make? When the bald eagle was facing extinction in North America, the bird had problems relative to other birds. Thus, it was logical to “target” that bird for different treatment in order that it could reach a point of viability once again. It could not have been done by simply seeking a non specific solution that treated all birds the same. Such would have simply preserved the bald eagles demise.

What whites are essentially proposing is a non specific solution to a specific black problem. At best, such would be very inefficient, if beneficial at all. They proclaim that they want to help solve the problems of the black community, but at they same time, if it means “targeting” blacks, they are against it. What logical sense does that make?

Some people have asked why some blacks need to always talk about thee white mindset and what they are thinking. This is a good case to represent why such is necessary. White will use their power, based upon what they are thinking, to undermine black legitimate attempts to lift ourselves up by our bootstraps. The example that this woman presents works to send a message to whites that it is ok for them to discriminate against blacks, because blacks are discriminating against whites. Her spin will give whites justification for not investing in Detroit or not giving them opportunities for convention business or something else.

She has drawn a moral equivalence between the actions of the Detroit city council and that of white racism of the past that bared blacks, when there is none. If a person suffers and unprovoked attack of violence against them and then retaliates .
with violence in order to offset the effects of the aggressor, are both acts of violence the moral equivalent? No court of law would suggest such. Rather, it would be called self defense. Therefore, whites have not only decided that they are not willing to come to our rescue, but they are also attempting to deny us the basic rights of self defense/preservation.


At 10:34 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

White reaction to this wonderful plan is just what we should expect. This again illustrates a point I have made several times in that White folk are willing to spend tax dollars on building other nations and lifting people from those nations up, however right here in their midst is a people destroyed by their actions and they are unwilling to spend a fraction of what is spent on rebuilding other nations. If we ask for the three billion given to the Israel every year they would have a fit, however the terrorism we have lived with for four hundred plus years and counting means absolutely nothing in the eyes of the white terrorist in America and those that benifit from it. I applaud Detroit and if this plan is brought to fruition I can see more Black folk moving to Detroit. What is so bad about Africa Town? We have China town, Jews have their shopping area's, so do the Greeks and the Polish all over this country. Africa Town is long over do. Imagine the possibilities of such a place, Hotels that host conference for the various Black organizations, shopping centers catering to us run by us. I am smiling just thinking about it.

At 10:45 AM, Blogger Scott said...

Have either of you seen this plan ? It is unclear to me that it is wonderful.

According to this article

"Anderson’s plan advocates slamming the door on outside investors " that seems the opposite of what you guys would want. Can you guys find some news articles not opinion articles about this plan, even better would be a copy of the plan itself.

At 11:27 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

What’s there to see? It is the concept that is being debated here; let us not obfuscate the issue by talking about details. This is revolutionary. This is the precursor to blacks, who make up the vast majority of their districts, establishing their own vacuum of interest that supports our needs. Next could be changing the structure of the public school system from it antiquated US template that has proved to do little to help the black youth be competitive in this world.

Detroit is a city that has experienced white disinvestment every since the riots of the 60’s. The Chaldeans (Christian Iraqis) run nearly all the service stations, groceries and liquor stores within the city limits of Detroit. In a city that is in reality, in 2004, 90% black, with just under 1-million residents, this is an idea that is WAY overdue.

Like Faheem, I think it is an outstanding idea/concept. Why can there exist Chinatowns, like Faheem astutely noted and not Africa towns? If a white person proposed such, with white businesses selling African peoples stuff, it would be a great idea. With 40 million black people in this nation and white people having an aversion to visit a 90% black city, for fear of being mugged or murdered, catering to attracting African Americans, whose incomes have risen, is an excellent idea.

At 1:01 PM, Blogger Scott said...

From what I read, it didn't seem like an African version of chinatown that is why I and you need more information to make any kind of informed decision. Just because Africa is in the name doesn't mean it a good idea for the people.

At 1:12 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Scott, lets just say for right now, all of us are not informed on everything surrounding this idea and we do not know all the nuances of it, why are you against it, based on what we do know? If it is meant to help Black folk why are you opposed to that? Do you not see the benefit in that or are you afraid of what white folk will think and since many have voiced their opposition to it, you are doing what you normally would do, FOLLOW SUIT and parrot their arguments. It must be really hard for you being in Black skin.

At 1:27 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I do believe that Scott is trying to skirt the issue here, which is the concept. That is what I miss about living in Michigan; there are a large percent of brothers and sisters whom many would label militant or radical. This phenomenon is a direct resultant of the racist nature of the state. It is, by most accounts, the most segregates state in the nation, with the most segregated metropolitan area in the nation, which is the Detroit area.

Whites have continually shown an aversion to live and operate under a black governed system. They say most whites left the city because of the riots and crime, but it really started when the city elected the honorable (hiz honer) Coleman A Young, in 1972, who then told all the criminals to hit eight-mile (the street that separates the city proper from its Northern white suburbs. Whites thought he was telling black criminals to go rob white folks. Whites simply do not want to operate in an environment where blacks are controlling. By the next census, 2010, Detroit will be over 90% black, truth is told, because whites keep leaving.

The city already has a “greektown” district and Mexican village areas on the Southwest side were the few Hispanics in the city live. It is high time that a “Africa Town” becomes a reality.

At 1:34 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I would like to thank Mike Illitch, the Pizza king and owner of The Detroit Tigers and Red Wings for all the investment that he has put into the city along the Woodward corridor. I would also like to thank the owner of Compuwar for moving his billion dollar headquarters from the suburbs to the city. What is the true for the whole (whites) is not necessarily true of all the parts (white individuals). These two business leaders have been committed to the revitalization of Detroit.

At 2:03 PM, Blogger Scott said...

You guys are fucking asses, I post 'I don't have enough info to make an informed decision' and you lie and say I am against it.

You guys are for it because a white person is against it. You are fools. Find out what the fucking idea is then judge it on its details.

At 2:11 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Did you say the same thing when Bush said..."Lets go to war Iraq has weapons of mass destruction"? I would venture to guess that most things that you have an opinion on, Scott, are formed without barring witness to all the facts. Thus, I think you are guilty of selective opining. We are debating the concept here...not the details. It is similar to the concept of one really knows the details of how it would manifest...however, the concept or idea needs to be accepted first.

At 10:05 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...


You can't feign neutrality or "waiting til all the facts come in" once you post something that is clearly on one side and basically cite it as your reservation.

Hmmm... I don't even think you said the idea sounds good. That would be the least you should say if you were earnestly waiting for more information and not trying to find a reason to be against it because the BROTHERS are for it and certain Whites are against it.

And this is just after, around or close to the posting on FRAMING....

You would think a person like you who presents himself as successful this and that... would support the IDEAS, if nothing else, and if you're in so good with Power Brokers (or whatever) then whatever flaws in such a plan you would put your stake down with Black people and not be a condescending outside observer.

The problem is... is by you stating what you have (and "framing" this issue as you have - "Just Because It Says Africa..." insulting the BROTHERS intelligence) you have really, whether you wanted to or not, shown your lack of faith in Black people.

As NTA alluded to when referencing Bush & Iraq... you apparently didn't and wouldn't have such a "lack of faith" problem with him.... And as we all know, more so today than ever, he's not that sharp!

So how do you explain that, Scott?

And I got love for bruh... but this sh*t has got to stop. Give Black people the benefit of the doubt sometimes instead of the persistent, automatic suspicion...

At 6:42 AM, Blogger Scott said...

Blah blah blah.

Show me the plan.

You guys have Zero information on it.

You are talking shit.

Which is your right.

At 7:03 AM, Blogger Faheem said...

Scott, if anyone is talking out of their ass, it is you. In an effort to discuss solutions I asked you to agree with me on what the problem is and what causes it and you could not do it, thus it is you who do not have a plan. You keep asking for a plan and a solution but how can we have either if we can not agree on the problem and what causes it. Discussing solutions and a plan with you would be a waste of time.

At 8:53 AM, Blogger Scott said...

Blah blah

Africa Town is the topic on this thread.

you have no details on the proposal so you can't judge if its useful or not.

that is all there is to discuss on it.

As I posted before this is what I believe

"I know racism against Black Americans as a group and as individuals is a historical fact and a present day fact. America has made great strides in correcting these injustices but a lot of work needs to be done to eliminate the damaging effects of historical racism.

I know current anti-racism programs have reached the point of diminishing returns and new programs need to be developed."

You can tell me wether this agrees enough with your POV or you can tell me where they differ.

At 9:38 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Scott, what is so hard about simply commenting on the information presented? It is obvious that each of us have simply based our opinion on what was said in the article. Yet, you seem to lack the ability or will to do the same thing. I can qualify my support for the proposal by saying that “Based upon what I have read” I support it. You could do the same thing. Simply qualify your statement.

It’s a great idea. As a matter of fact…I am going to write the city council and tell them not to be intimidated by “outsiders”, but to go forward with implementing this plan….based upon what I know…I will ask them for details…but I doubt if they have the time to inform a former resident of the city.

Scotts digressing....typical...

At 11:26 AM, Blogger Scott said...

Well you are an idiot if you are willing to take a stand based on so little information.

At 11:35 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I can accept being called an idiot by an idiot…because you have no credibility. However, if you have a demonstrated history of intelligence and impartiality…I would take your comment under serious consideration.

Besides…why the need to be visceral? Are you intellectually constipated or something?

At 9:41 PM, Blogger Scott said...

"The crux of the plan is the creation of a business district -- dubbed African Town -- that would be funded in part with city money and made up of black-owned businesses catering to a black clientele.

The report also complains that immigrants from Mexico, Asia and the Middle East are stealing resources, jobs and other opportunities from blacks and calls on city leaders to stop the economic shift."

Do you consider these groups enemies of black people like you consider whites ?
It also apprears that their black mayor is the one who vetoed it, so maybe it possible that two black people working for the people have different opinions.

"The mayor vetoed both resolutions, but the same council members overrode the veto."

At 4:58 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

The mayor vetoed because some provisions are illegal in that it discriminates. In regards to Mexicans, Arabs, Asians, whites or is you who use the term enemy. The truth is that they are competitors for the black dollar. Currently, over 90% of the black dollar goes to non black businesses. What the city council is proposing is a shift of black buying paradigm to favor blacks. You see black people patronizing white, Asian, Mexican and other establishments far more than you see then patronizing ours. THus, if no one else is patronizing makes sense that we look out for ourselves.

At 6:31 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Thanks for clearing that up, so in your world if your not black you are not alright. Simplistic but if that is what you believe cool.

From what I read there was nothing to change the "paradigm " just government money being funneled to black business, nothing about encouraging blacks to actually buy there. But then since neither of us have seen the plan we could both be wrong.

At 12:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is a darn shame what Scott throws out here. He is full of negativism whenever something favoring Blacks is posted. Remember when he wrote, "So what if he was a criminal. He helped Blacks". But when the discussion turns to this Black plan, you get nothing but sketicism and name calling.


At 5:51 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Scott has NO charecter! This is the same guy who made an invitation to a conservative list serve and asked that we not let them know that his is black. Now, I might be wrong...but people whose ideology are in agreement usually don't try to hide their race. Generally, people try to pretend to be a differnt race to have their opinions accepted when they are counter to the normal thinking of that given race. Thus, why Scott would need to pretend that he is white makes no sense...because he is in agreement with the white ideology...if they knew he was black they would embrace him so that they would not seem racist. does make sense that scott coulb be actually pretending to be black, when he is really white...or something else. That would explain his resistance to anything that is proactively the Detroit City Councils plan.

Not long ago he asked us for a "plan" to help black people. Where here is a "plan" coming from Detroit...and now Scott is the nay sayer and critic...Scott has no plan himself...but to do address what the white man says in our problem...laziness and irresponsibility

At 5:12 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Please show me a link to this "plan" that is all I asked on this entire thread. I am amazed that you can't even admit that you have no idea what their plan is.

I have looked over powernomics in the bookstore over a year ago an I was unimpressed, but I have ordered it from my local public library so I can review it again.

I would love it if collective economics worked. Tony brown has been preaching it for longer than my life time. But it has been tried again and again and failed, everyone remembers the failed "buy black" campaigns from their childhood unless this plan can address those problems I don't see how it can work.

Pick up Tony Browns "Black Lies, White lies" and read p266 and p267.

At 4:53 AM, Blogger Rong said...

Interesting idea. If you were to envision the final outcome of this revitilization project would it look something like Harlem back in it's earlier heydays? I guess my concern with this "plan" is the fact that there needs to be some govt. sanctioned mechanism put in place to see this vision to fruition. Wasn't Harlem simply a product of the Black community catering to itself, just like China town or the Hasidic Jew neighborhoods?
I don't know if the persona of the Korean or Middle Eastern store keeper working in a Black neighborhood is correct. I don't know what govt. benefits these minorities may get over those of a Black business man. If there are differences then I can see where there is a need for change. Other than that I would think that the leaders within the Black community should help in creating an "African" centric area within a city. What do you believe are the problems faced by the Black community in doing this on their own? Would rezoning of certain areas within the city help?
From Scotts comments I guess this plan has no specifics as yet, but what do you think it would need in order for it to work? I don't expect you to write it all our but I'd be interested in 2 or 3 overall points that would need to be addressed.
I know my questions come from the perspective of a white, middle class, suburban, but I am trying to understand how this could work, and what problems it may have.
Noah - do you think that communities like Chinatown help or hinder the American Chinese culture? I see positives like cultural heritage and the dissimination of that culture to others. I wonder if there is a concern (from Chinese immigrants) that this type of cultural neighborhod perpetuates an improper/incorrect perspective of American Chinese? Should this be looked into and weigh out the pros and cons to an "African-town"?

At 6:32 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

To be perfectly honest, I do not feel that I need anymore details to accept this Concept or idea that is to be supported via the city government. Often time’s ideas or plans need to have their details tweaked, but that does not mean throwing out the baby with the bath water. It is an excellent idea.

Harlem and other vibrant black communities of the past were the product of residential forced segregation, thus, you did not need government playing a role in this. Also, there is no other major ethnic group in America that needs a paradigm shift just to get its people to start supporting their own. When living under a system that has promoted the concept of white supremacy and black inferiority, for centuries, people subconsciously believe it…even many blacks themselves. Consequently, blacks tend to give all our business to non black person, which only hurts us and helps them. As side analogous note, I have a friend who just went back to Africa to wed a bride. The bride, an African also, insisted on all the grooms and bride clothing being from America. It was a status and perception thing that American clothing was superior to that produced in his native countries. Of course, their local tailors and GDP was out several thousands dollars simply due to perception.

As I stated before, Detroit proper is dominated by Middle Eastern Merchants. The Middle Eastern and other merchants do not seem to flourish in any community, (other than Dearborn where they predominate) in any communities other than the black ones. It is high time that black communities become dominated by Black businesses. Also, there has been lots of tension and killing, over the years, between Arab merchants and Detroit’s black community. Whenever you have a different race of people controlling the economics and businesses of a community, you are going to breed tension, from misunderstandings, cultural differences and racism.

At 2:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are on point! And I simply would support the Concept and plan because the city would be heavily involved. The plan will help Black people and that is the goal. Never mind that the exact details are not fully worked out. The Concept needs to be jump started and then tuned.



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