December 29, 2004

What explains black class stratification?

Many people, when discussing the rise of the black middle class, tend to assume a monolithic black experience in degree and kind for each and every black American. Hence, these people then take that assumption and build the conclusion that blacks who have risen to middle class, as the general rule, demonstrated a superior effort, intellect, choices, responsibility or other and hence this explain why some blacks have risen to the middle and upper class while so many others are left behind.

Is this fair? Is being black in America akin to each black person having to go through life with an equal 50lb weight upon our backs that represents the weight of past and present racism? Does each black person inherit the same coefficient of friction against progress born from the weight of the past and present? The answer to these hypothetical analogies is no. Black people have never had a monolithic experience in degree, if not in kind of experiences. Thus, if we all do not and have not had equal resistance to our forward progress, does it not stand to reason that given an assumed equal effort, by each and every black, that class stratification is inevitable to occur because those with less resistance will move farther ahead than those with more? Of course it does...to the intellectually honest.

The truth is that the pounds black people carry varies from person to person. Even during times of slavery, field Negroes faced more resistance than house Negroes. There was also the free black man and women who had it better than the slaves. Hence, after emancipation, we were not all coming out of the gates even. Some blacks came from more brutal plantations than others, that separated families, whipped them more often, sexual abuse and the like, which scared them psychologically, putting them at a disadvantage in the competition of life and opportunities. They subsequently passed their economic condition, behavior and disadvantage to their children via socialization through emulation. It is not hard to see how economic disadvantage is easily passed on to the next generation.

There has also always been the light skin/dark skin phenomenon that manifested in light skin blacks facing less friction from whites than the pure looking Negro. When I say pure looking I mean dark with Negroid features. Also, there was the difference in Region, most profoundly, the North offered more opportunities than the South. In conjunction with all these varying environments and experiences is the fact that every human life is different in experience. No humans have the exact same experiences, in degree, kind, time and space, that one individual can say that they have walked in the same shoes of life as another. A life can be thrown off course or guided to prosperity from the butterfly effect of a single initial event or condition, which manifests a chain reaction of actions and reactions over time. Thus, two people with very similar backgrounds can have radically different life outcomes from a sigle event.

In light of these truths and probabilities, it stands to reason that an intelligent person would not and should not beleive that class stratification of blacks is due to the upperworldly mobil blacks demonstrating a superiority in effort, work ethics, choices and personal responsibility. It is just as plausible and probable that this can be explained by the different degrees of social and environmental impediments in the lives of black individuals and families. This is not to suggest that some blacks do achieve more than others by virtue of working harder, working smarter and being personally responsible, because many do separate themselves based upon that. However, one cannot assume this to be the general rule that explains the class separation in black America.

Those black people who come to adopt and promote this finger pointing at the black lower class are guilty of being “white like”. I say this because the fundamental reasoning of whites to explain social and class stratification is individual superiority or inferiority and not environment. White people, as a general rule, give little respect to environment in explaining social and behavioral condition. This is mainly because they want to see themselves as superior in human competition. Hence, one can have their ego enhanced by being of a higher social rank in the human competition that we all engage in. People do not want to have their rank and status tainted by the thought of an unfair advantage over others. Thus, they dismiss that the environment caused the separation of outcome, which indicts the individual or race whose behind of being genetically and or culturally inferior.

Fortunately, the masses of black people have not fell victims to this mindset, which is outstanding considering the fact that we are immersed in a white supremacy nation and mindset. That having been said, there are those few black people, mostly black conservatives types, who like to look down upon the black poor and underclass as lazy and irresponsible people who have no one to blame for their condition but themselves. In truth, what they are doing is EXALTING them selves in the juxtaposition. Each time they lament about the failures of poor blacks, they are highlighting their own successes. They do not come right out and say it, but that is what they are doing. I have been responsible, I have worked hard, I have made the right choices….look at me….I am somebody that white folks respect! Negro please! You likely just carried a lighter load than other black folks and or caught a lucky break.

37 Comments:

At 2:23 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Boy you missed the boat on this one.

There has always been stratification in the black community due to knowledge wealth etc. Once civil rights act was passed it was no longer legal to oppress the upper class black.

Then thanks to affirmative action the upper class blacks got preferential treatment and so we able to quickly better themselve materially.

And lowe class blacks got welfare which helped destroy their family structures and made each of them poorer.

So basically the change since 1964 is that upperclass blacks have gotten preferential treatment and the other 95% got screwed by the civil right leaders who didn't get any indivually based wealth or knowledge building program. Like a GI bill for blacks, or VA loans for blacks. Instead they got sold on socialist bullshit like public housing.

 
At 3:50 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Go play with yourself Scott.

 
At 3:52 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

What Civil Rights leaders are you talking about SCOTT?
Not that I ideologically agreed with that path but your casting of blame seems pretty damn selective. BTW, what were the Black Conservative platforms at that time? Hmmm.... Still searching...

What about your pals?
What were the White CONservative prescriptions then?
Please inform us...
(And speaking about what they did not believe and promote is not an answer. Please specify what programs like CONCRETE programs like the ones you alluded to that were in the documented platforms of Black or White CON's).

Also, it's funny that you mention the GI Bill. Because I know of one prominent Civil Rights leader that spoke specifically about things like that.

 
At 5:55 PM, Blogger Scott said...

In 1971 Nixon implemented up with affirmative action and federal Set-Aside for run black business.

But 40 years ago, isn't today, its not even 20 years ago.

Times have changed the tatics need to change with the times. I do know faheem wasn't able to come up with one significant piece of legislation that was proposed for black people in the last 20 years by liberal democrats. When I can show the school voucher plan passed by republicans just last year for washington DC school children and parents. Outside of America 15 billion was passed for AIDS treatment and prevention for Hatii and Africa. NCLB warts and all increased federal funding to public schools by about 40%.

I have no problem with whom I am standing and voting these days. Can you say the same?

 
At 6:20 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I do not think that the issue is what gets passed, but rather, what gets proposed in house resolutions, such as HR 40. You have many flaws in your reasoning scott. In this case, the flaw is that you focus to much on passed legislation, when many proposals are voted down in the competition of interest in congress. Given the Republican control of congress and the general instransigence of all white folks, whether conservative or liberal, to specifically target black people for the good, it is not suprising nothing has passed in the last 20 years. However, another way to look at it is who has tried end programs and policies that have helped black people, such as Affirmative Action. Regardless if you say affirmative action only helps middle and upper class blacks...they are still BLACK. Thus, those in opposition to AA could have the effect of life more middle class blacks tougher, to the degree thay may not be able to maintain that boyancey for their offspring.

 
At 7:26 PM, Blogger Scott said...

No the challenge wasn't passed laws, it was proposed legislation. Can you name any pro-black legislation what was proposed in the last 20 years by the democrats.

Faheem couldn't, I can't, can you.

 
At 7:33 PM, Blogger Scott said...

The black middle class if already failing its children because it to not accumulating enough wealth. And its wealth not income that allows your children to stand on your shoulders.

I hope the BlackEnterprise wealth initative is able to educate black people on this facts.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/WBK.asp
http://www.blackenterprise.com/Investing/20.htm

 
At 8:00 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

I already noted House Resolution 40 (HR 40) that has been proposed for the last 20 years by John Conyers, a black democrat from MIchigan. HR 40 is a proposal to study the effects of slavery upon black people and the concept of paying reparations to slave descendants.

Now...there you go...so I hope that shuts you the hell up....but I doubt it...because your question was simply rhetorical BS.

 
At 8:14 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Yes SCOTT is full of BS.

Notice he said Nixon implemented AA.
Now, who proposed it. Definitely not his CON pals.

And as far as [White] Liberal Democrats...
Who gives a FUCK!! I'm not parading them or their ideology as some type of relevant virtue.

Learn how to speak with relevance. Because your world is stuck in the WHITE Right vs. WHITE Left matrix doesn't mean I choose fights in the WHO's The Better White Man contest.

 
At 8:35 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Now, weasel-azz SCOTT...

You started this question about the past.
Berating Civil Rights leaders in the CRE about what they didn't get... then.

Now, your punk azz is stutterin' because I asked you what those "liberal" Blacks fellow hankerchief head Negroes did then. NO ANSWER... All you could come up with is "Nixon..."

So, it was you who place the focus on the past. And when I spanked your azz with a question you couldn't answer without shaming your ideology... you punked the f-ck out.

Since you're not that sharp (or just that cowardly) this is what flew over your head:
- You said the Civil Rights leaders didn't get X, Y, Z
- I'm questioning how it is you think they could just "get" whatever they could have thought up. And beyond that... who else was in the equation of them not "getting" the X, Y, Z.

You seemed to "blame" them and them alone, SCOTT.

So, back to what the fuck was up with Black COn's then.
Please tell us about the one's that were all about "getting" the X, Y, Z. What were their specific platforms then? Or you could say Black CON's were non-existent then or too damn cowardly or actually in favor of whatever Whites decided... Whatever's accurate and unevasive.

Thank You!!

----------------------
Also... how come you didn't respond to this:
"...it's funny that you mention the GI Bill. Because I know of one prominent Civil Rights leader that spoke specifically about things like that."

I guess your weasel azz knew that contradicted your BS-azz statement.

"Times have changed the tatics need to change with the times." - SCOTT

But you and your fellow liberal hankerchief head Negroes have hardly ever conceived of all encompassing tactics. You Black Conservatism only seeks to replace the Black liberalism you despise while leaving things pretty much the same, IMO.

School Vouchers... Hmmm... let's see...
I'm sure every Black school child in America will benefit. lol

 
At 8:48 AM, Blogger Scott said...

"Because I know of one prominent Civil Rights leader that spoke specifically about things like that.""

Please identify the leader and the proposal.

and Noah thank for prividing HR-40 from 1997
http://www.directblackaction.com/rep_bills/hr40.htm
Which uis basically a proposal to reseach racism. Wow we really need reseach on that. 8 million dollars to reseach racism. Yea that will help. Yes I am be sarcastic, yes I understand it part of the campaign for reparations. But boy it that little.


Just to clarify. Have great respect for the accomplishments of the civil rights era. But that is then this is now, time for new tatics because the old ones don't work. Back in 1964 people actually though socialism was an effective response to racism and capitalism. Time has proven that that assumption was wrong. I don't blame leaders for passing the great society program. It help some it hurt in other ways. But the people blacks vote for haven't keep up with the times.

You guys know that is true, that is why you hate to be called a liberal or say you don't want to get caught in the better white man argument. Unfortunately that is the hand we have to play.

In this day and age, I see more black power coming from freedom and capitalism than I see from socialism. You can demand anything you want from the government and they can give it to you one year and remove it the next.

Vouchers give us the power to fund our own schools, Medical saving accounts allow us to have health insurance wether end when we are the last hired and first fired. Private social security accounts allow us to direct our savings into companies that we choose.

That were I see the future for black people. From the left I don't see any real plan to uplift black people.

I remember 1984 Jesse talking at the DNC. Well its 20 years since then. And his talking, our voting hasn't gotten us shit. The mexican have gotten amestry for illegals which drives down wages on the low end of the scale hurting us. White women get more assisance from Afrimative action than black people. One thing we do have is more government jobs which is great.

But where is black civil society. If black america get its 100 billion plus payout for slavery. Where is the plan. I don't see it.

And I wish you would spend more time on this blog discussing options. Instead of slamming black conservatives, but it your blog do as you please.

 
At 9:44 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Scott, you are being a weasel again. You did not qualify what type of proposal liberal has made in the last 20 years, filtered for your personal approval of worthiness or merit. You simply asked for JUST ONE, without qualification. Now that your challenge was met, you weasel and obfuscate by questioning the credibility or merits of the proposal. Why did you not simply ask us to provide something that liberals have done that YOU think is worthy? That way we can see the question for the BS rhetorical nature that it was asked.

Just because you say that “old tactics” do not work, does not mean that it is true. Also, you say that we must play the hand of choosing the best white man; well I disagree because I do not vote. As a black person, you are not playing the game, the game is PLAYING YOU.

 
At 10:19 AM, Blogger Scott said...

So Noah, you don't vote. What do you do. What ACTION do you do and have done to uplift black people. I know you have a young daughter so maybe you don't have as much time as before. But tell us what do you DO to uplift black people.

Because it sounds like NOTHING to me. Since you don't believe in voting either here or for the Iraqis. We know what you hate. So tell us what do you DO.

And I did you give you props for providing one piece of legislation that was proposed, you beat faheem by 1. I was just pointing out that the legislation wouldn't actually help black people which was the critiria of the challenge, but I accepted that you saw it as laying the ground work for reparations so I accepted it.

 
At 12:03 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

SCOTT, Please address my questions. The I.D. of the Civil Rights leader is about the easiest... and you should know who it is/was if you’re as studied and use FACTS like you claim to.

Research G.I. Bill and the Bill Of Rights For The Disadvantaged.

“Vouchers give us the power to fund our own schools...”

And that I have no problem with whatsoever but where are the Black Conservative PLANS to do just that. Where is the New B-Con Booker T. Washington Academies of the Voucher world?? The people using whatever means to open schools, fund and operate “our own schools”, IMO, are overwhelmingly “liberal”. I know of Black Charter schools (the anti-Voucher option) that are up and running. And with all the rich White Conservative money behind B-Con’s I have heard of one school that B-Con’s, themselves, have decided to use those funds for “our own schools”.

Perhaps you can inform me otherwise. But with all the talk you do even you haven’t said anything remotely specific about actual PLANS. When RENALDO posted... he mentioned a Black Charter school (no Vouchers necessary) in the metro-Atlanta area (I think) that was accomplishing more than I presume Vouchers ever could for that area.

So, you see... there is a better plan out there that your party and ideology WON’T pursue. So when are you going to “change tactics”.

“I don't blame leaders for passing the great society program. It help some it hurt in other ways.
“But the people blacks vote for haven't keep up with the times.”

You want to spell out what “the times” require. Empty rhetoric doesn’t impress me, SCOTT. You want to make a comparative measure of the benefits Blacks have received to-date under liberal vs. conservative policies. You talk about Nixon implementing AA but its clearly been the liberal democrats up until very recently that supported that policy that you have had to admit has helped the Black middle-class. Conservatives via their party have not supported those Blacks becoming more secure in the middle-class or the others who have reached it via AA. That political record shows that despite the Smoke & Mirrors revisionist history you like to retell.

And as far as democrats and Jesse.... F*CK THEM!!

This "up with the times" BS you’re pumpin’ about Republicans is some Johnny Come Lately BS in Trojan Horse clothing. At very best these Republican policies will mirror the “success” Blacks have made under “liberal” policies. So, 20-40 years down the road you will be celebrating something that New Jack Black political activists will say likewise label as methods “behind the times” and assess your tactics as being ones that settled for far too little far too much.

You have not articulated a PLAN that goes beyond that. You are starring in the role as Chief Handkerchief Head running around ecstatic about some damn crumbs.

As far as discussing options...
SCOTT, you ain’t ready yet. As long as your mind stays tied to party and ideology that way that it is... you won’t be able to comprehend or receive the wisdom of any options discussed. Hmmm.... and on your blog. What options do you discuss outside of WHITE party generated ones?

OPTIONS:
1))) Vocuhers: Let’s have Black Conservatives found and fund Black schools like “liberal” Blacks found Black/African-centered schools... with this policy as you claim can be done... with OPEN PLANS to do so (since you expect Blacks to jump on that bandwagon).

2))) Charter Schools: Since you Negro-CON’s don’t have the spine to aggressively pursue Opt. 1 then actually respond to the criticism about the limited per pupil benefits of Vouchers and show some support for the charter school movement or "whatever is genuinely designed to get (the most) results." (Malcolm X)

 
At 4:01 PM, Blogger Scott said...

"And as far as democrats and Jesse.... F*CK THEM!!"

You seem to believe what I believe then then why are we arguing. I just know for 20 years of my life I have voted and supported the democrats and haven't gotten shit for it. You seem to agree.

I see Bush who didn't even get 10% of the black vote in 2000 pass significant legislation to help some blacks. So I returned the favor with my vote. I see the NAACP selling out young black people and taking thier scholorships to private school away in florida. I see traditional black leadership has lots its way.

So we both agree on that. So lets stop discussing that and start discussin what way you think we should go. Or you can continue to call me a race traitor for coming to th same conclusions you have.

 
At 4:04 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Also google charter school and failure.

Crappy public schools are still public schools, even when you throw new paint on them.

 
At 4:10 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Also my previous blog Blacks for Bush was specifically about the election and why we should or should not vote for Bush over Kerry. Thus I would primarily discuss his ideas.

But on my new blog I will discuss more of my own ideas.

http://tswe.blogspot.com/

Oh and here is a perfect charter story
http://www.detnews.com/2003/schools/0310/03/a01-287874.htm

 
At 4:45 PM, Blogger KaDa said...

Interesting interchange! At the risk of being firebombed, I will interject impression of Black America today. As member of so called “model minority” – a term coined the conservative raciest to divide and conquer – I wondered for many years why black folks let the racism anchor them down to the poor class of this country. As a minority in this country, I experience some form of racism on a daily basis. I suspect, in fact I am sure, the racism takes on different tinge for blacks then us Asians. For us the racism tends to be more overt where as my impression of racism by whites toward blacks tends to be covert. One thing I have been curious is this: is color of your skin really a hindrance toward success in this country, or is it an excuse for failure? To answer my own question, I think it is some of both. Having said that, hindrance can rapidly be overcome by drive to succeed, but once you embark on slippery slope of using it as an excuse then you are doomed. I see too many black people sliding down this sloop.

 
At 5:14 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

KaDa...

Then how do you explain otherwise "successful" Black people who talk about racism in all its forms.

I think its a silly association to say that people use racism as an excuse. Excuse makers will use any excuse available. Hence, racism as an excuse, IMO, is of little or no consequence.

And... I guess drive grows on trees like money or is like an osmosis thingy?

 
At 5:31 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Scott,

I asked you to elaborate on what seemed to be your own idea here - Vouchers as a way to fund "our own schools".

But what did you do? You talked about everything else staying entrenched in your ideological silliness.

I also don't think I've called you a "race traitor". I've been adamant about your silly Right vs. Left stuff... And I could care less about your personal disdain and conversion from "liberalism" or whatever. I told you where I was coming from a long time ago. And I told you that I put you right in the same boat with the Civil Rights Establishment you like to criticize.

We can't talk about anything (effectively) when you can't figure out what I've said to you as opposed to what others have. And your weaselism isn't conducive either.

On the Charter issue... Holla at your boy Renaldo (Conservo)... You disappeared when that conversation came up... Typical.

 
At 5:38 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

"More charter school students proficient on state exams than public school peers"

http://www2.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-12/hu-mcs121404.php

We can do this all day SCOTT...

 
At 5:53 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Pros and Cons...

One of 38 KIPP schools around the country, the D.C. school enrolls about 240 students in grades 5 and 6 and stays open until 5:00 p.m. each day, and half a day on Saturday. KIPP DC: KEY Academy has been one of the highest-performing schools of any type in the trouble-plagued District of Columbia system.

Care to extrapolate how many kids would be helped by Charters like KEY vs. Vouchers?

http://www.edletter.org/current/

 
At 7:50 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Charter school, are a compromise between massive public schools and private schools. I don't think we need to compromise on this issue.

The power of the free markets, is that competetion allows schools to be created and destoroyed faster.
More competetion allows more divertity. The amount of bullshit that is required to make a charter school is incredible. But if you has school vouchers you could start a school tomorrow. With you and you neighoors kids.

The idea isn't to create a wonderful perfect model the point is to create a market of models and to allow them to compete for students.

 
At 8:33 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Okay... So show some Black Conservative Fortitude and answer my question:

Show me where you and Black Con's are funding "our own" schools with the aid of Vouchers.

Or should I take that as your usual BS?

You claim B-Con's are the sh*t. B-Con's are about it.
Speak up! You're doing a lot of talking in the abstract SCOTT. You act like I got you on the ropes or something.

You couldn't answer where B-Con's were during the Civil Rights Movement and now you can't tell me about any specific PLANS B-Con's have to build or fund "our own schools" or instituitions. And you want me to not consider you a "traitor to the race" when you don't have any PLANS for it... contrary to your many proclamations?

That really sounds like Black people should roll with the B-Con's. Roll with them where... I don't know because you're still stumbling over the directions...
You keep regurgitating White Speak by way of talking in the general and circuitously avoiding the Black Specific.

What seems to be the problem with answering a direct question about something you brought up SCOTT?

 
At 8:42 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

"The idea isn't to create a wonderful perfect model the point is to create a market of models and to allow them to compete for students."


Scott? What?? Then what's the problem with Charters?
It's a "model". And I was direct with you. I have no problem with Vouchers provided that they are and can be used the way you suggested... but have you to establish that Black Conservatives actually have some of their own dark meat on them WHITE BONES.

Like I said... Holla At Your Boy!!

And bone up like a man and answer my question.
What are Black Conservatives doing in terms of using Vouchers to fund "our own" schools.

How come B-Con's can't get behind the Black Liberals who have some of our "own schools" and tell their rich White CON buddies to FUND THEM? How much money are the generous White CON's (or B-Con's for that matter) donating to the Harlem Children's Zone, etc.?

Are you just about ideology... party or what, Scott?

 
At 8:50 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

Let me repeat this:
"The idea isn't to create a wonderful perfect model the point is to create a market of models and to allow them to compete for students."

Scott??? What???

What's the goal of the competition for students expect but to have students in schools that are "wonderful, perfect models" for scholastic achievement?

You say some real silly sh*t just to put forth your ideology.

 
At 9:04 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Scott, historically the biggest enemy of black folks in this nation has been white folks. That is FACT. I do not know the point in time where that no longer became true. Maybe because that point in time has never come, in my opinion. There was the stage that white folks were knocking us down, which lasted up to the civil rights movement. After the civil rights movement and changing of laws, the strategy shifted from knocking us down (because law now protected blacks) to trying to keep blacks from getting back up on our feet. The only legal outlet for the implementation of this strategy is via politics. It was the government that changed and enforced laws to protect blacks from white oppressors. Thus, the racist political strategy evolved into an anti-government strategy, because government was dismantling the established order of legally supported white supremacy. Therefore, there came an anti-government movement. That movement among whites in its extreme form is represented by all these white militia, paramilitary types and survivalist. Nearly all these groups are racist, as well as being anti-government. In the less extreme form, you have those white who remain connected to the political process and who instead try to reduce the size and reach of government through “Conservatism”. Much of the push of these conservatives is to make the government less friendly to black needs born from 300 years of racial oppression. In light of the fact that they could no longer pass laws to legally support white supremacy, they instead focused on preventing policies and programs intended to even the playing field, which threaten white supremacy.

Scott stands proudly, as a black man, with the racist elements who have a tradition, if not goal, of keeping blacks down, if not knocking them down. He stands with the Trent Lotts and other representatives of districts full of rednecks, who all support platforms to reduce government in the lives of people, because it was the government the federal government that usurped their legalized white supremacy in the South. Thus, the federal government is the enemy to many Southern whites, because it destroyed their way of life. Now they are fighting back, cloaked in the Trojan horse called “conservatism”, with the goal of reducing government and hence reducing aid and programs that will help blacks reduce the condition of white supremacy.

KaDa, one thing that you might want to note about the blacks who are always talking about racism, they are mostly very accomplished. You must have an old stereotype of the poor welfare recipient talking about how the white man is keeping blacks down. Today, it the poor and less educated blacks are not the ones talking about racism the most, Why? Because most of them are surrounded by other poor blacks and they can’t see the forest for the trees. Other poor blacks are around poor whites, which negates the impression white racism as being the cause of the poverty. Thus, it is those blacks who formally and informally educate themselves about the ways of the “System” and who infiltrate into the corporate and white worlds to really see the big picture of what is going on. It is this knowledge that makes us so outspoken about racism.

 
At 11:53 AM, Blogger KaDa said...

Very interesting point about who in Black community are talking about racism; point well taken. Likes of Cornell West would have different opinions of racism in general then the folks in the worst neighborhood in this country.

 
At 6:28 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

KaDa...

Who do the folks in the worst neighborhoods identify with and who identifies with them is a better question.

Separation by class or station is not a determinant of or separation of perspectives. The articulation my be different, the insights varying... but the core components can be very much the same.

You tell me what's the fundamental or functional difference between ideas promoted by Cornel West (not that he's the epitome or anything) and the brother on the street.

Of the prevailing views... which one belongs or was founded in which "class"?

 
At 6:50 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Besides...the brothers on the street don't get to be heard. I think that the vast majority of black folks know the link between white historical racism and the current black problems. However, on a day to day segregated bases, many blacks see their biggest problems and threats coming from other black folks. Many fail to see the big picture of how white supremacy is influencing this behind the scene. When racism was more overt, poor blacks were more directly effected by it and could identify it. However, now, when blacks send in a resume or fill out job applications, they cannot see the white personal manager who filters out black sounding names. Thus, when they do not get the job, they cannot see the racism that was at play.

 
At 5:21 AM, Blogger Scott said...

Please job discrimination is one place where EVERYONE on the street knows that they are getting screwed.

 
At 5:39 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

You must have a differnt working definition of "knowledge". My understanding of the term is that knowlege comes from first hand ability to bare witness via observation and or to be able to prove something. Therefore, it differs from the concepts of beliefs and assumptions, which many blacks have about being discriminated against. In the past, there were signs that said "Whites Only". Whites told blacks aloud that they did not higher niggers or coloreds. Thus, blacks could bare witness that they were being discriminated against. Today, when applications are filtered by the criterion of names that sound black, a black person cannot bare witness to why they did not get a job.

I do not know why you always chose to be a contrarian and an a-hole so much of the time....but I guess it is par for the course of conservatism.

 
At 6:38 AM, Blogger Scott said...

You make the typical liberal conceit that anyone who disagrees with you must be ignorant of the facts. And even worse you assume people lower down the economic ladder are less knowledgable than you and need you to tell them what to think.

Everyone who lives in a black neighboorhood knows prices are higher, police come slower, there are fewer public buses, more health hazards like garbage dumps.

You are not telling anyone anything they don't know.

You and your silly redefining of everyword until you are speaking your own language. Btw have you sat in an office with white managers and seen them pass over resumes with black sounding names. If that isn't the case then by your OWN definition you shouldn't be mentioning it.

 
At 7:13 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

And even worse you assume people lower down the economic ladder are less knowledgable than you and need you to tell them what to think.
______________________________________________________

Typical blowhard CONservative BS!
Scott, you're the one constantly at odds with NOAH over for not citing information in support of the things he knows from practical experience.

A little honesty and Intellectual Integrity just might help what ails you in these debates Scott. Without them everything you say comes back and smacks you in the face.

Positions of Convenience just so you can lay out your puke-o-tronic CONservative Talking Points only serve to further highlight that you think someone is dumb enough not to catch your blatantly obvious BS. But I guess you are the compulsive lying type that would deny stealing the proverbial cookie when caught with it in-hand and still in the cookie jar.

Un-f*cking-Believeable!!

 
At 7:25 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

"I think that the vast majority of black folks know the link between white historical racism and the current black problems." - NOAH
_______________________________________________________

Any more asinine comments about typical Liberal Conceipt, SCOTT? Now, pretend like you really didn't see that...

You get the STFU Award. How do you feel Scott?!!

 
At 4:19 PM, Blogger Scott said...

It good to see that Noah can say two opposite things in the same thread and you agree with both. :)

 
At 7:36 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

SCOTT :) :) :) :):) :)

lol... Of what value do you think your words are??
You have no Intellectual Integrity as demonstrated here time and again... and you think what you say is suppose to resonate somewhere? Somehow?

Here's to your wishful thinking and personal (I Keep Gettin' My Azz Kicked) torment. :) :) :) :)

 

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