August 29, 2004

"Black People" and Reparation Checks

It has been said more than once, it has been said in a major motion picture, a popular black comedian did a skit on it and I even seen the idea advanced on one of the cable networks; If "Black People" are given reparations in the form of a check, this or that will happen. In the movie Barber Shop Cedric the Entertainer said that we would spend it all on Cadillac’s, Dave Chappelle did a skit on his show that portrayed us spending reparation checks on Chicken and many other things.

The sad part about this garbage being spoken on television and in movies is that no one has challenged this foolishness. When ever I hear a Black person advance this idea I ask them if that is what they will do, and of course they say no. I then ask, if not you then who? They of course say other people, you know “Black people”. The truth is Black men and women will not spend money giving to us for reparations any different than white folk or any other group of people would spend money given to them or money they already have. When we look at the idea that “Black People” will run out and buy this car or that car in large quantities, we see that this ignores that there is no one car that has been purchased by more Black folk than any other group of people. Even the Cadillac Escalade which is commonly referred to as the car “Black People” will run out and buy is driven by more white folk than by us. So what would be so weird about Black men and women buying a car if they need one? As far as fast food restaurant becoming this or that because Black men and women have come into some money, this to ignore the fact that no fast food operation is in business because "Black People" are their biggest customers and that includes the Big Chicken chains, thus we would only be spending our money as those who already have money spend theirs.

We can expect and should expect that some people who have never had money will spend it frivolously but to suggest that “Black People” will spend money this way or that way can only mean that their is a fundamental belief that we lack the discipline other groups of people allegedly have to spend money wisely; as if we will spend it on things that is not being purchased by those who have money already. The sad part about this belief is that it is espoused by other Black folk who apparently do not consider themselves “Black people”.

I believe if given reparations in the form of a check "Black People" will spend it on various things that include but not limited to; cars, if we do not have one, a home if we do not have one, some of us would use it to send our children to College or to a private grade school, some of us would use it to take care relatives suffering from some illness, some of us will use it clear up any debt we have and the list goes on. It is about time we start challenging those Black folk who continue to advance the idiotic idea that “Black people” will spend reparations given in the form of a check irresponsibly and remind them that they are "Black People" as well.

Faheem..

17 Comments:

At 5:06 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

FAHEEM,

I challenge people that say that too. Most of the time its on the basis that there is a strong push in the Reparations Movement that focuses on Institution Building and doesn't promote the idea of Cash Cheques as the primary form of payment.

So saying REPARATIONS = Checks is off-the-point for the most part.

What I've encountered from people in general, besides Black people being self-deprecating, is the idea that they want to make it into a Sham were "Black people are just trying to scheme of a way to get a hand-out". The whole point in them doing that is to try to paint the picture that:
[1] Blacks that advocate Reparations are too lazy to work for it;
[2] Black support for Reparations is motivated strictly out of the quest to get some "free money"... and not based on principle.

So at the root of almost all arguments against Reparations are some kind of disparaging remarks or ideas to deem Black people as unworthy. The sad part about it, as you have pointed out, Black people regurgitate this same notion that is part and parcel of White opposition to Reparations.

The fact of the matter is no case involving restitution of any sort revolves around speculative ideas about how those violated will spend funds that come from the restitution paid to them. So, in that sense, What Black People Would Do with Reparations money has NO relevance to whether or not Reparations are due (and righteous).

Really, what it all boils down to is people who Disparage, hoping to Discourage.

White people do it for obvious reasons.

Black people do it because so many of us are self-deprecating and are all too quick to Think The Worst and say that Black people will exhibit the Worst. Some say it directly echoing White sentiments. Others say it because they want to discourage Reparations in fear of White Backlash - most of the time echoing White sentiments.

 
At 6:15 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Its funny how the term "black people" is used non-inclusive by so many of our people, when they are making dispariging remarks. If each of us see ourselves as being inclusive, when the term is used, it should have the effect of cutting down on all this negative rhetoric. However, the truth is that many of our people are trying to seperate themselves from the think of the masses, feeling that it ELIVATES them in the process. It makes them feel SUPERIOR and hence more acceptable to white society.

I agree totally Faheem. This nonsense gets propogated by our noted scholars such as Cedric the Entertainer, Ice Cube and the Chapell cat. While uneducated cats like Cornell West, Mike Dyson and others rarely gets that large of a national audience to give their point of view.

 
At 9:37 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

[[[ "I agree totally Faheem. This nonsense gets propogated by our noted scholars such as Cedric the Entertainer, Ice Cube and the Chapell cat. While uneducated cats like Cornell West, Mike Dyson and others rarely gets that large of a national audience to give their point of view." ]]]

Don't forget the His Eminence, Chris Rock. The foremost authority on all things Black (and N@ggers). I can't remember if he commented on Reparations (though I think some White person who esteems his "scholarship" may have mentioned it in discussions...) but he would be one who's received that most "Critical" Acclaim for his "forward" views on race.

And his most popularly noted routine would be the best example of how certain Black people want ELEVATE themselves above others... You can count Bill Cosby, The Grand Daddy Of Them ALL (and the Old Salty Dogg...) right there in that whole group of reknown "scholars" and respected social critics.

Its a wonder how Segregation masked all this classism and self-hatred.

 
At 9:48 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

The sad part about all this (and the direct effect of doing this before a broad - White included - audience) is that White people take that BS as The Black Monolithic Gospel and run with it.

In a exchange on another forum, I had a guy tell me that I couldn't be considered an "Insider" as it relates to Black people who are more or less not in my economic class; more specifically those deemed "ghetto" who supposedly would not see me, another Black man, as "one of them".

So, the idiocy of the unthinking "Airing Of Our Dirty Laundry" and this Rush Away From The "Bottom" - the enduring negative stigma of "Black" and all things Whites deem as negatives for Blacks - is exactly what you say.

Some "Negroes" have a desperate desire to not be seen as (the other) "ONE OF THEM" by White America. And, as detailed in other topics here... some are reaping a fortune doing it.

-----------------------------
Check out this article by Manning Marable about some of this phenomenon:

Escaping from Blackness:
Racial Identity and Public Policy
http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/4/2000/504

 
At 11:52 PM, Blogger Blackhoney said...

It is good to see someone finally debunking this myth Faheem.
Black Americans are more than capable of handling their finances in my opinion and often better than their White counterparts, due in part to the fact that we often have less to work with and therefore spend our pennies far more wisely.

 
At 10:52 AM, Blogger Scott said...

You guys are on dust. You accept his argument without any fucking facts to back it up. You are on the web, were data is a Google search away, where is the data to back up his belief that blacks wouldn't spend extra cash frivolously. Do we have a higher savings rate ? Do we invest more in education, stock market homes ? Do we build more small business ?

Well here is an article that counters your claim that we don't piss away our money.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4021/is_1_25/ai_96734619

"Americans of all colors like a bargain, but whites are the most likely of all racial and ethnic groups to shop at discount stores."

So were aren't even willing to shop at discount stores.

Now this article isn't the end all of the debate, but please try to use some FACTs and have your conclusion based on it. And this article does make the point that different groups do have different shopping behavior, which you try to deny when you say. "The truth is Black men and women will not spend money giving to us for reparations any different than white folk or any other group of people would spend money given to them or money they already have."


The saddest part about this post is that you are trivializing the entire reparations debate.

For anyone who actually wants to THINK about reparations check out these links on my blog.


http://blacksforbush.blogspot.com/2004/08/alan-keyes-supports-form-of.html

http://blacksforbush.blogspot.com/2004/08/blacks-deserve-reparations-from-reason.html

 
At 11:53 AM, Blogger Noah TA said...

Well Scott, you seem to be as knowledgeable about this subject matter as you are on physics and science. If one takes a subset of the white population, with the aim of the subset to be a mirror of the superset of black America, in regards to poverty rates, median per capita income and educational levels, that would be a fair racial comparison of spending proclivities.

As Faheem noted, black people spending habits are not that different from whites, however, the spending habits and priorities of “poor” or “uneducated” people are considerably different from those more affluent and educated. Thus, the difference in spending behavior has much more to do with “CLASS” than it does for race. It just so happen that black poverty rates are a couple times greater than whites on the whole, making a phenomenon that is rooted in class, seem as if it is rooted in race, when it is not.

 
At 12:23 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Neither of you have show a single piece of evidence to back up your beliefs. Please do so.

 
At 12:38 PM, Blogger Noah TA said...

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If evidence is so paramount to you, how about you presenting the evidence that what I just stated in regards to “class” is not true. If you are a proponent of evidence, yet, fail to present any that discredits my assertion, then you have just discredited yourself.

You need to stop relying on what “others” say, because you have know way of proving the validity of it…rather, you simply look for literature that matches your political ideology…and deem it credible for your trust.

 
At 1:21 PM, Blogger Faheem said...

Scott buys into any thing that disparages Black men and women and paint a picture about us as being irresponsible but he would say of himself he is none of those things but yet he is a black person. Scott missed the point in my article where I stats;

"We can expect and should expect that some people who have never had money will spend it frivolously but to suggest that “Black People” will spend money this way or that way can only mean that their is a fundamental belief that we lack the discipline other groups of people allegedly have to spend money wise"

You quote that white folk are more likely to shop at a discount store, but your little article also points out that:

"Blacks are the most likely of all groups to be willing to travel an hour or more to shop at their favorite store and almost twice as likely as the average consumer to go out of their way to find new stores, especially if a bargain is to be had."

Further more throughout the article the percentage points between Black consumerism and white consumerism is in the single digits and as low as three to four percentage points in many instances. If we extrapolate that data into to real world numbers we see that white folk spend money far more frivolously that black folk being that so many of us are poor and are not shopping at all. There is no way this article can portray an accurate picture of consumerism about Black folk by doing a survey of a few of us, but I digress. I think your article support my position more than it supports yours.

Also take into account that those white folk that you say are saving money, investing in this or that opening business are also spending money on those things that are believed to be the things Black folk will run out and spend money from reparations on, thus equating a person with money spending habits with those who have little money is not a fair comparison. Surely you knew this. Measuring how we spend $646 billion to how white folk spend $6.3 trillion is funny, it is no wonder they are investing and saving look at the difference in money spent.

A guy making 40k a year is not going to save or spend his money the way a guy making 80k will. Surely you knew that to.

 
At 2:21 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

SCOTT....

Here's something that DEBUNKS your ignorant comment-question about:
"Do We Build More Small Businesses?"
_______________________________________________
Blacks are starting businesses at greater rates, but they are also failing at greater rates, according to a recent study by the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation.

While *** black men and women are 50% more likely to attempt a business start-up than their white counterparts ***, the numbers show many of those new black businesses never get off the ground. And for those that do actually start, they are not growing as quickly or as big as white-owned companies.

For example, 1.7 million firms will still be in existence four years after they were started. Of those, only 3,200 will have grown to 100 or more employees.

Of those 3,200, only 1% will be African-American owned....

Blacks are starting businesses at greater rates, but they are also failing at greater rates, according to a recent study by the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation.

While black men and women are 50% more likely to attempt a business start-up than their white counterparts, the numbers show many of those new black businesses never get off the ground. And for those that do actually start, they are not growing as quickly or as big as white-owned companies.

For example, 1.7 million firms will still be in existence four years after they were started. Of those, only 3,200 will have grown to 100 or more employees.

Of those 3,200, only 1% will be African-American owned....

"African-Americans are very entrepreneurial oriented, yet they are failing at very high rates," says Bill Boudreaux, author of The Complete Startup Guide for the Black Entrepreneur. "Something in the process is causing that."

Black business owners and analysts say a *** lack of proper planning ***, *** poor capital structure *** and *** stigmas *** are partly to blame.

Boudreaux and Nelson say black owned business still face stigmas about their work -- whether it be from uncooperative banks or from suppliers who charge higher prices.

"It's unfortunate that after all the African-American success stories there is still a stigma African-American businesses have to bear," Boudreaux says.


http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2004/05/24/story4.html
_____________________________________________________

FYI, Scott...

You really don't want to Play The Provide Proof Game.
Now, out of the THREE areas mentioned as contributing to the frequency of failures only ONE is on Black people and TWO is the fault of extra-Black problems - i.e. due RACISM and societal issues.

It's a COMPLEX that I won't name right now...
That has Black people always wanting to prove themselves worthy of things that others in society get on GP. Yes! There too much in some Black peoples mentalities that feel that we have "earn" things that Whites don't and prove ourselves worthy of being in White People's country.

You do know Bush is on record for saying this is a White Nation, more or less? Don't you?? That's what he thinks deep down inside and, obviously, the people he hangs with think that too! (Ask for proof of that!)

Now, what does that make you? Being for Bush?
Hmmm.......

 
At 9:03 PM, Blogger Scott said...

Glad you finally found some evidence to support your thesis.

I understand Bushes weakness on race:
http://blacksforbush.blogspot.com/2004/07/bush-and-race-from-i-hate-republican.html

The sad thing is that he has done more for black people in the last three years than any democrats in 3, if not the last 11.

Federal funded school vouchers for the people on washington D.C. and th NCLB act. Are the two biggest things he has done for black America.

http://blacksforbush.blogspot.com/2004/07/naacp-betrays-black-americansthrough.html

I hope in his second term he will be able to privatize social security since most blacks don't live long enough to collect the money they put into social security. and if its privatized it becomes wealth that can be passed on to the nexy generation.

BTW when I started my blog I wasn't totally pro-bush I was investiagting because it bad for blacks to always vote democrat. As I have look at issue after issue Bush is just better on important issues than Kerry.

http://blacksforbush.blogspot.com/2004/03/malcolm-x-ballot-or-bullet-malcolm.html

Malcolm said it 40 years ago:

"As they see these new political trends, it's possible for them to see that every time there's an election the races are so close that they have to have a recount. They had to recount in Massachusetts to see who was going to be governor, it was so close. It was the same way in Rhode Island, in Minnesota, and in many other parts of the country. And the same with Kennedy and Nixon when they ran for president. It was so close they had to count all over again. Well, what does this mean? It means that when white people are evenly divided, and black people have a bloc of votes of their own, it is left up to them to determine who's going to sit in the White House and who's going to be in the dog house."

But we never learned the lesson. Its time for a change. The black vote must stop selling out Black America by giving away the milk for free. Join with me to earn the respect of the political power brokers in America.

 
At 11:54 AM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

[[[ Glad you finally found some evidence to support your thesis. ]]]

Scott, I'm NMAGINATE. Not NOAH. Not FAHEEM or whoever. I haven't had many if any exchanges with you. So you can save the BS!

[[[ The sad thing is that he has done more for black people in the last three years than any democrats in 3, if not the last 11.... Federal funded school vouchers for the people on washington D.C. and th NCLB act. Are the two biggest things he has done for black America. ]]]

Oh! I see you're one of them:
"I GOT THE BETTER WHITE MAN" partisan "Black" people.
Save the Proproganda and the GRADUALISM.

MLK said something about that some 30-40 years ago.

[[[ I hope in his second term... ]]]

Silly, wishful thinking refrain... Get your hopes up!
Of course, the Republican doctrine is the ONLY alternative. lol

[[[ BTW when I started my blog I wasn't totally pro-bush I was investiagting because it bad for blacks to always vote democrat. ]]]

Is that so? I guess you can hang a great amount of sound logic and reason on that kind of statement, as if it is true in and of itself.

AMAZING...

http://blacksforbush.blogspot.com/2004/03/malcolm-x-ballot-or-bullet-malcolm.html

[[[ Malcolm said it 40 years ago... ]]]

Don't try to act like or make it appear like you're down with Malcolm. I'm the wrong guy to talk to when and if you want to invoke Malcolm X.

It would behoove to not try and misappropriate MLK, Malcolm X or just about any one else to fit your distorted conservative dogma.

[[[ But we never learned the lesson. Its time for a change....

Join with me to earn the respect of the political power brokers in America. ]]]

Join? Hankerchief Heads and the NEW CRUMB SNATCHERS??
I told you... you got the wrong guy.

"EARN" the respect of White People...
(You know that's what you meant to say.)

Only a SLAVE wants to win the approval and "earn" the respect of his Master. Only a SLAVE feels he has too. Only a SLAVE automatically gives respect to those who have status and/or those that rule over them. And, ONLY a SLAVE wants to participate in managing the Plantation in exchange for a few concessions.

Don't you ever let me catch you slippin' Malcolm X's name out of your SLAVE Cyber-Mouth!

Jump with Glee That You Have The "Better" White Man...
For it truly does make a SLAVE Happy that his master is a "good" massa.

You said it's time for a change...
Well I say it's time for a change from that Buck Dancing, Lawn Jockey, HankerChief Head, Crumbs Please mentality with the gleeful satisfaction that you're still being ruled over by massa.

Find someone else to talk partisan politics to, Scott.
My motto is: F@ck A Democrat and MotherF@ck A Republican!!

(Sorry FAHEEM)

Neither one is gonna do nothing but band-aids on our problems. And I pay my got damn taxes too! I demand an equal and fair return. And above that, I demand the same requisite control over mine!

Now think of that when you want to have a SERIOUS DISCUSSION ON REPARATIONS - e.g. Taxation Without Representation.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h640.html

 
At 5:57 PM, Blogger NmagiNATE said...

In other words, Scott...

You and your CON-servative brothers would represent a "change" if you actually sought out to do more than just take the place of the "traditional" (Civil Rights) so-called Leadership.

As it stands, ya'll only represent the other side of the SAME COIN. Your WorldView is essential the same. You operative under the same philosophical pretense with much the same type and level of expectations - i.e. CRUMBS.

"Vouchers".... lol
"NCLB".... lol

You support for Bush is the epitome of ACQUIESCING and ABDICATION (and actually any partisanship). I can appreciate it for what it is worth. So, I wish you well in your endeavours. But, I will not *JOIN* you and Sell My Soul and My People for a Bag Of Beans.

Now, let's see you Black CON-servatives actually force the issue and make the Republican party implement a full scale BLACK AGENDA. If not... merely duplicating what was done by the Civil Rights leadership (if that) doesn't represent a "change". It represents the Same Thing Different Day.

There's always a young upstart desiring to take the thrown-title of a once "triumphant" warrior who once had 'favor' with 'Cesar'. Having grown 'old' and an inconvenient, the once proud elder warrior would seem to have seen his last days, the upstart thinks. So with grand designs the Upstart manuveurs both in public and behind the scenes, anglin' for the Elder's spot Hoping to gain the same esteem in the eyes of the people that the brave old warrior earned, the Upstart fails to realize that the Elder's esteem came from his brave efforts in many battles against great odds and going against the grain.

*Hoping* to gain more esteem in the eyes of 'Cesar' the foolish Upstart goes with the flow by plotting the death of the now thorny Elder. Little does the Upstart know that it will not be respect that he gains from 'Cesar'. He only stands to seal the same eventual fate as the Elder.

Why? Because he played HIMSELF! and set his role as the flunkie-HitMan because he never aspired to or desired MORE....

THE MORAL:
The only change you represent is a change of face of the same Operating System. Pawns on either side of the Chess board (either side of the political divide) are still Pawns all the same. They BOTH get USED!

 
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At 9:47 PM, Blogger TheWrathofShane said...

This is not racist, because your name is Faheem, and I assume your black! But if your name was sarah and you were white, you might as well be a KKK member. Admit it.

 

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